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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 5886306" data-attributes="member: 177">And I think that's an entirely reasonable target for a designer.But it still ain't &quot;objective&quot;.&nbsp; That word has a whole lot of power and meaning.&nbsp; The idea behind that word does help drive edition wars, so I'm gonna yelp when someone lays claim to it inaccurately.&nbsp; Common wisdom and broad agreement are good things, and by all means we should use them, but let us not confuse them with objective truth, is all I'm sayin'.Advanced Squad Leader.&nbsp; But you hit on that later.Playing that game is intended to be a mental exercise.&nbsp; And, just like physical exercise put into game form (like, say, basketball), some folks find it fun.&nbsp; I did, back in the day, even.&nbsp; Not so much today, but I recall the enjoyment regardless.&nbsp; I know players who approach RPGs similarly - they are looking for the tactical combat game as the main source of their enjoyment.&nbsp; All you have to do is decide how much you want to design for those players.And I'd agree.&nbsp; But then we are admitting the goal needs to be stated, and we can determine who will find that goal a worthy one.&nbsp; Moreover, we can then see the nested goals inherent in the design, and determine if maybe some of them are in conflict with each other, or with the expected goals of the players.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 5886306, member: 177"] And I think that's an entirely reasonable target for a designer. But it still ain't "objective". That word has a whole lot of power and meaning. The idea behind that word does help drive edition wars, so I'm gonna yelp when someone lays claim to it inaccurately. Common wisdom and broad agreement are good things, and by all means we should use them, but let us not confuse them with objective truth, is all I'm sayin'. Advanced Squad Leader. But you hit on that later. Playing that game is intended to be a mental exercise. And, just like physical exercise put into game form (like, say, basketball), some folks find it fun. I did, back in the day, even. Not so much today, but I recall the enjoyment regardless. I know players who approach RPGs similarly - they are looking for the tactical combat game as the main source of their enjoyment. All you have to do is decide how much you want to design for those players. And I'd agree. But then we are admitting the goal needs to be stated, and we can determine who will find that goal a worthy one. Moreover, we can then see the nested goals inherent in the design, and determine if maybe some of them are in conflict with each other, or with the expected goals of the players. [/QUOTE]

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