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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6360579" data-attributes="member: 42582">I think in practice, though, based on my experience as a 4e GM, it plays the way you are suggesting (ie 3 cases, not 4).Because superior cover is enough to hide, you don't need to worry about the superior/blocking-LoE issue when adjudicating hiding.And because the LoE issue is dealt with simply via the logic of the fiction, you don't actually need rules to handle that at all: that was part of what I was getting at with my keyhole example.The problem cases that come up in 5e - eg is the cover enough to hide behind, given that it still makes sense that someone could shoot or even stab a thin knife through it? - don't come up in 4e.Another way to put it: 4e uses &quot;fiction first&quot; to adjudicate the &quot;clear path&quot; aspect of spellcasting and archery, whereas it uses &quot;gamist&quot; rules to adjudicate stealth. 5e tries to use the same &quot;gamist&quot; rules to adjudicate both stealth and &quot;clear path&quot;, and hence its &quot;total cover&quot; gets sucked into the vortex of rules adjudication in a way that 4e's &quot;terrain that blocks LoE&quot; does not.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6360579, member: 42582"] I think in practice, though, based on my experience as a 4e GM, it plays the way you are suggesting (ie 3 cases, not 4). Because superior cover is enough to hide, you don't need to worry about the superior/blocking-LoE issue when adjudicating hiding. And because the LoE issue is dealt with simply via the logic of the fiction, you don't actually need [I]rules[/I] to handle that at all: that was part of what I was getting at with my keyhole example. The problem cases that come up in 5e - eg is the cover enough to hide behind, given that it still makes sense that someone could shoot or even stab a thin knife through it? - don't come up in 4e. Another way to put it: 4e uses "fiction first" to adjudicate the "clear path" aspect of spellcasting and archery, whereas it uses "gamist" rules to adjudicate stealth. 5e tries to use the same "gamist" rules to adjudicate both stealth and "clear path", and hence its "total cover" gets sucked into the vortex of rules adjudication in a way that 4e's "terrain that blocks LoE" does not. [/QUOTE]

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