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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6361471" data-attributes="member: 42582">That depends on how you approach action declaration.The 4e DMG (p 75) saysit’s particularly important to make sure these checks are grounded in actions that make sense in the adventure and the situation. If a player asks, “Can I use Diplomacy?” you should ask what exactly the character might be doing to help the party . . ."In the Rules Compendium (p 125) the same principle is less-clearly stated:The Dungeon Master determines if a skill check is appropriate in a given situation . . .So if a player behind a transparent wall says "I am hiding" the GM might well ask "How?". That is, prior to applying the action resolution rules, we actually have to have an action declaration that satisfies basic credibility/genre/fictional requirements.Once the action is declared, the action resolution mechanics tell us whether or not it succeeds: if the character has superior cover or total concealment, a check is permitted; otherwise the attempt to hide fails. If the initial attempt succeeds, then hidden status is maintained until the character loses cover/concealment. (Even this requirement is framed as "keep out of sight", and so a player who declares "I remain hidden as I sneak behind the low-rise wall of force" might expect to be asked "How do you remain hidden?")How might a player make a permissible action declaration to use Stealth behind a transparent wall? Perhaps "I splash mud against the wall, and hide behind that", or "I lean a broken leafy branch up against the wall, and hide behind that" or "I hang a blanket from the top of the wall, and hide behind that". If the GM thinks the declared action is a bit of a stretch, s/he can always impose a -2 penalty.The difference from 5e, at least as I see it (and this seems to be borne out by the Stealth threads) is that in 5e "not being seen" is framed as part of the action resolution mechanics rather than as part of the overall fiction within which action declaration takes place. Hence the relationship between total and 3/4 cover becomes part of the resolution mechanics for hiding. 4e, on the other hand, doesn't need a mechanical concept of "total cover" separate from a description of the fictional situation. Which was my original point to [MENTION=1465]Li Shenron[/MENTION].</blockquote>

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