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5th Edition and the "true exotic" races ...
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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6828600" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>Uh, when was D&D ever about equality between your choices and roleplaying dreams?</p><p></p><p>It's evolved from being extremely restrictive to less restrictive. But it's still a class-based game, for example. Skill-based games are much more "equal" and provide many more options. </p><p></p><p>I don't think that all races, classes, etc. will or should ever be presented as all equal. The core books describe the default, generic D&D world. They've tied that into the Forgotten Realms because that's also their best selling setting. The Forgotten Realms has been around a lot longer than the 5e. Changing it to everything is now equal doesn't make sense. For that you need a new campaign world without decades of history.</p><p></p><p>The racial mix has been presented very differently in other worlds before. Thri-kreen were important in Dark Sun, but I don't want them to be equal within the core D&D. D&D was originally designed as humanocentric, that humans are common, and everything else is less common to one degree or another. If you want to play an all elven campaign, you can. All dragonborn, no problem. But in the "standard" D&D world, where the races, classes and monsters define D&D as much, if not more, than the rules themselves, that's not what I, nor a great many other people, would like.</p><p></p><p>I also don't agree that the 5e was entirely defensive against the 4e. Yes, it was a big factor. But they went much deeper. Sales peaked in the '80's. The decline was long, with a few bumps up along the way, and 4e was a bigger drop than others. But they looked at their whole business model, and approached it from a much bigger perspective.</p><p></p><p>To me it looks much more like this.</p><p></p><p>"OK, it's clear that what we thought was great in 4e wasn't embraced by the D&D public. So it's time for another new edition. </p><p>But what is it that makes D&D D&D?"</p><p></p><p>To answer that you have to go back to the beginning. And everything in between. And ask a lot of people. They did that and more. They put out a lot of playtests and had a lot of feedback. In the end, this is what they determined makes D&D D&D. </p><p></p><p>As for what's represented as common and exotic? In the D&D video games it would appear that everything is common. In the adventure paths, they stick largely with how things are presented in the core books, but that makes sense since those are largely presenting the Forgotten Realms. Sure they've been sprinkling in more races, but they are still rare because, well in the Forgotten Realms they are rare. </p><p></p><p>Having said that, the popularity of the Forgotten Realms, are partially dependent on the continuing series novels that are specifically focused on an exotic. Despite that, drow continue to be an exotic race in core D&D, which also makes sense.</p><p></p><p>I'm interested to see the presentation of the Curse of Strahd, because one of my bigger complaints with the trajectory that began in 2e, but really dropped in 4e of "everything core is core in all worlds" is that the worlds became very homogonized. I'm really hoping that Ravenloft has a very different feel and approach to the Forgotten Realms (again).</p><p></p><p>No, it's not Dark Sun (and my understanding is that the 4e Dark Sun setting was done very well). It's not Planescape or Spelljammer. But guess what? Those all sold much less than Forgotten Realms and Grayhawk. Once again, the feedback, which in part is based on sales, indicate that part of what makes D&D D&D is a particular mix of races and classes. </p><p></p><p>It's not the only option, but it's the base option.</p><p></p><p>Will WotC stray far from this option? Probably not. Definitely not in established campaign settings. It became very clear that remaining consistent with the individual settings is important. Not everybody cares, but there are a lot who do care about the differences of a given setting from others. And that Forgotten Realms fans (or Grayhawk fans, Ravenloft, etc.) are as particular about their setting as Star Wars fans are about theirs.</p><p></p><p>George Lucas can tell you that there's an incredible weight of the expectations of the fans. As long as you don't go to far outside the box you're OK. On the other hand, that passionate fan base also buys stuff. A lot of stuff. If something fits the world and says Forgotten Realms on it, then they will buy it. So no, I don't expect them to stray far from what sells. </p><p></p><p>But the option is open once again for 3rd parties to go as far from the standard as they'd like. And this applies to the standard worlds too. The Dungeon Master's Guild is a brilliant start because it just opened the door for the majority of new Forgotten Realms material to be published by Ed Greenwood. I think it's very likely that WotC will open up Ravenloft as another setting available to writers in the Guild, and Hickman and Hickman publishing new as well as revised materials. </p><p></p><p>Ultimately I think we should see the best of both worlds.</p><p></p><p>Ilbranteloth</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 6828600, member: 6778044"] Uh, when was D&D ever about equality between your choices and roleplaying dreams? It's evolved from being extremely restrictive to less restrictive. But it's still a class-based game, for example. Skill-based games are much more "equal" and provide many more options. I don't think that all races, classes, etc. will or should ever be presented as all equal. The core books describe the default, generic D&D world. They've tied that into the Forgotten Realms because that's also their best selling setting. The Forgotten Realms has been around a lot longer than the 5e. Changing it to everything is now equal doesn't make sense. For that you need a new campaign world without decades of history. The racial mix has been presented very differently in other worlds before. Thri-kreen were important in Dark Sun, but I don't want them to be equal within the core D&D. D&D was originally designed as humanocentric, that humans are common, and everything else is less common to one degree or another. If you want to play an all elven campaign, you can. All dragonborn, no problem. But in the "standard" D&D world, where the races, classes and monsters define D&D as much, if not more, than the rules themselves, that's not what I, nor a great many other people, would like. I also don't agree that the 5e was entirely defensive against the 4e. Yes, it was a big factor. But they went much deeper. Sales peaked in the '80's. The decline was long, with a few bumps up along the way, and 4e was a bigger drop than others. But they looked at their whole business model, and approached it from a much bigger perspective. To me it looks much more like this. "OK, it's clear that what we thought was great in 4e wasn't embraced by the D&D public. So it's time for another new edition. But what is it that makes D&D D&D?" To answer that you have to go back to the beginning. And everything in between. And ask a lot of people. They did that and more. They put out a lot of playtests and had a lot of feedback. In the end, this is what they determined makes D&D D&D. As for what's represented as common and exotic? In the D&D video games it would appear that everything is common. In the adventure paths, they stick largely with how things are presented in the core books, but that makes sense since those are largely presenting the Forgotten Realms. Sure they've been sprinkling in more races, but they are still rare because, well in the Forgotten Realms they are rare. Having said that, the popularity of the Forgotten Realms, are partially dependent on the continuing series novels that are specifically focused on an exotic. Despite that, drow continue to be an exotic race in core D&D, which also makes sense. I'm interested to see the presentation of the Curse of Strahd, because one of my bigger complaints with the trajectory that began in 2e, but really dropped in 4e of "everything core is core in all worlds" is that the worlds became very homogonized. I'm really hoping that Ravenloft has a very different feel and approach to the Forgotten Realms (again). No, it's not Dark Sun (and my understanding is that the 4e Dark Sun setting was done very well). It's not Planescape or Spelljammer. But guess what? Those all sold much less than Forgotten Realms and Grayhawk. Once again, the feedback, which in part is based on sales, indicate that part of what makes D&D D&D is a particular mix of races and classes. It's not the only option, but it's the base option. Will WotC stray far from this option? Probably not. Definitely not in established campaign settings. It became very clear that remaining consistent with the individual settings is important. Not everybody cares, but there are a lot who do care about the differences of a given setting from others. And that Forgotten Realms fans (or Grayhawk fans, Ravenloft, etc.) are as particular about their setting as Star Wars fans are about theirs. George Lucas can tell you that there's an incredible weight of the expectations of the fans. As long as you don't go to far outside the box you're OK. On the other hand, that passionate fan base also buys stuff. A lot of stuff. If something fits the world and says Forgotten Realms on it, then they will buy it. So no, I don't expect them to stray far from what sells. But the option is open once again for 3rd parties to go as far from the standard as they'd like. And this applies to the standard worlds too. The Dungeon Master's Guild is a brilliant start because it just opened the door for the majority of new Forgotten Realms material to be published by Ed Greenwood. I think it's very likely that WotC will open up Ravenloft as another setting available to writers in the Guild, and Hickman and Hickman publishing new as well as revised materials. Ultimately I think we should see the best of both worlds. Ilbranteloth [/QUOTE]
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