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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6634865" data-attributes="member: 5834">The hand would hold it where it is per the grapple rules. The range is 120 feet. You still have to get the melee to where the creature is. Hand is a concentration spell. Fly is a concentration spell. Do you attempt to use the hand possibly failing to grapple the creature or use the more fly guaranteeing the melee can get to the creature?Hand is an excellent choice in a party with ranged power. Holds the dragon in place. Allows you to do damage. Ranged attackers tee off on it. Less reliable with melee. We went with fly. I really wanted to try hand. The breath weapon hit so hard that missing a concentration check was almost guaranteed. Once I got hand at 9th level, I had 56 hit points. Dragon breath weapon does 54 points of damage. I could have used a 4th level slot to cast fire shield on myself to DR. I was holding back my 4th level slots for group flies. I am going to try Bigby's sometime. I really wanted to try this spell. I hope I get to play a wizard in a group with ranged martials next time I play a wizard. I don't want my most sure tactical option to be fly.Another debated spell. Fly was more reliable. Telekinesis is a great spell. You can't waste time with appropriate CR dragons. Damage is too high. You have to use reliable means to win. At least in standard sized parties without much magic. I had 56 hit points at 9th level. Cleric maybe had 60 to 65. Fighter I think had 90 because he took toughness. You can't be wasting any time. Breath weapon 54 average damage. He's going to hit someone. Followed by melee attacks with Legendary action. Full hit point dragon played intelligent will usually sweep in for one quick kill using its breath weapon and actions, then start to use its mobility to avoid damage.Lair action, legendary action, and melee attacks you're usually looking at 70 to 100 DPR depending on how many times he hits. If you leave a soft target like a caster in visible range, he will kill that target and then leave. At least that is how we play. So it is important not to leave a soft target open to initial attack. With the low hit points, the dragon will kill a soft, low AC target. So you want to send in the armored martials to draw its agro first, then enter battle.Makes some of the tactics a little tricky.Sentinel can be quite good for halting a strafing flier if they don't have reach. You can mitigate that if the Polearm Master is also a Sentinel guy. That is quite a hefty feat investment.Young dragons aren't a problem unless there are a lot of them.</blockquote>

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