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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6635737" data-attributes="member: 5834">That is why the wizard stays away from the battle. We were aware that one breath weapon destroyed concentration. We discussed this prior to entering the battle. Keeping up fly is essential.We lost two party members down in the opening few rounds. We tried to spread out to avoid the breath weapon. Two got hit. Cleric and fighter. They were hit while in frosty mist that does damage. 10 points on top of breath weapon. Cleric missed save, both. 65 damage done right there. 8th level cleric with 14 con. 59 hit points. Wish had cast aid prior to battle, but he didn't.Fighter was barely standing. He dropped next round. When the dragon closed and full attacked him with legendary actions while he was in mist using blindsight. Entire lair difficult terrain. Hard to get out of mist. Fighter and cleric both died in frosty mist. Auto missed death saves when taking damage during a round. Couldn't see them, couldn't heal them.We play that monsters hit down creatures to prevent pop up healing. One hit on down creature auto-crit, two missed death saves. One additional hit, target dead. Only revival can get him back on his feet. You starting to see why when people call our DM a moron it's annoying? Our encounters are run visciously. No leaving down targets to be healed and popped back up. They drop, monsters finish them. Most have been fighting long enough to know how healing works.Paladin did some damage to him while mist was going. He used Vow of Enmity to get advantage on attack rolls.We found adult dragons quite tough if not at a level to make them trivial, especially in their lairs. Later on they were trivial as our tactics and ability to damage them improved.I do believe you have to fly the melee guys if your party's primary damage dealers are melee martials. I believe attempting to do it the way you outline will lead to a dead party a very high percentage of the time. I believe I can empirically prove this in encounters against the same enemy under the same conditions with a similar party using the tactics you describe as an alternate to fly. I believe ranged str-based throwing weapons are inferior and don't sufficient damage to defeat an adult dragon in a standard sized party using core assumptions. The dragon will out-damage the str-based ranged throwers leading to party death a great deal of the time. I think I can prove all these things if you and I were at a table with the same circumstances using the tactics you describe versus the tactics we used. Therein lies the disagreement. You believe the tactics you stated that don't use fly would lead to a victory a couple of rounds later, I believe they would lead to our party's death.</blockquote>

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