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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6636662" data-attributes="member: 5834">Yep, Hussar. That's why making a str-based melee party is a bad idea in 5E. Too much can go wrong even with fly. You can find better things to do with concentration slots if you make a ranged party.Ruins a lot of classic fantasy archetypes that players like to play. Only way around the melee martial mobility problem is less lethal DMing, providing a lot of magic to assist the party, and perhaps other means outside the core rules and assumptions. If a player has built a character to be a melee martial because he enjoys it, he needs to rethink that concept because it is not the same as previous editions. That was the point I was trying to convey.I don't know that I like that melee martials have suddenly turned into this liability in 5E. Some guys like playing up close and personal fighters swinging an axe in a monster's face including dragons. Now that same player should carry a ranged weapon because meleeing isn't a good idea in a lot of fights such as against fliers or ranged attackers behind cover. Magic is so much weaker, it's harder to get them into a fight.I could even discuss how hard it is to get melee martials to a ledge where someone is attacking from. Or through cover into a building where ranged is attacking. Teleport is level 7 now, instead of 5. So you can't port melee martial into a sealed castle if you get spotted and hammered. You can't turn a bunch of them invisible. They still have the same problems with Stealth with disadvantage on the roll and probably not taking the skill as well, though I guess every melee martial can take stealth now. A lot of the weaknesses of melee martial were overcome with magic. Now that is a lot harder to accomplish to the point where it's mostly not worth the hassle. So all these guys that used to like to play a big, badass, super-strong martial swinging on someone are going to have to change in 5E. I don't know how much I like that. If you make a Launcelot or Aragorn with the sword and armor, better stick to low level humanoid enemies or you will run into serious problems. I guess it's fortunate that Tolkien didn't give the Ringwraiths bows to fire on hapless travelers from above. Makes for a boring story even though an excellent combat tactic. I imagine a lot of DMs will tailor encounters to allow melee martials to do what they do. That won't work as well for our group, at least not for me. I hate playing monsters like long-lived dragons or powerful outsiders in a manner that isn't highly efficient. I feel like if I play them stupid, then they wouldn't have lived long enough to be as powerful as they are.</blockquote>

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