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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DaveDash" data-source="post: 6638820" data-attributes="member: 6786202">We fought a CR17 Adult Red Dragon with that group and won. The thing is though it was a Mexican stand-off for ages - we used Wall of Force to protect ourselves from the Dragon's breath initially, and used full cover effectively. Eventually the DM decided to come in and attack, because we started using Unseen servant and Tensers floating disk to start stealing its hoard.We had a Tiefling Wizard (Transmuter, using his stone for con bonuses) and took the risk of taking a breath weapon to the face in order to get a Bigby's Hand off at the Dragon as it came into attack, and we managed to pin it. We also rolled 05 on a d100 for the Clerics 'Divine Intervention' ability and the DM let us summon a Deva to aid us - but we could have summoned one anyway with enough gold. Bigby's Hand was effective. It locked the Dragon down just long enough for the GMW Fighter to get in there and damage it. +8 vs +8 and no disadvantage for grappling a larger creature, quite powerful.We probably spent hmm, 3.5 hours running this fight as the DM was playing "to win" and not approaching within range of our spells and other nasty effects until the very end, where he lost patience and decided the Dragon would go in for an attack, it wouldn't be the kind of D&D fight you'd run normally unless you had really dedicated players. I was tired and also forgot a few things like Henrys Battlemaster Dice.So I think I want to take back my scoffing at Bigby's Hand at least being ineffective. It's actually effective, abiet lucky, if you can get close enough, it gives you a good 50/50 chance to win the fight, more if you burn inspiration, play a diviner, or take the lucky feat. I think with real characters we probably wouldn't have risked them in that fight, as it did require luck to win. But with throw away characters when we decided to go all in, we came out victorious.Still Bigbys Hand is not as effective as fly, and the fight would be incredibly tedious for most normal groups as it was one lengthy game of cat and mouse. So I wouldn't recommend going into a Dragon fight without fly and preferably haste prepared.</blockquote>

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