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<blockquote data-quote="Caffe Nightcap" data-source="post: 6767243" data-attributes="member: 6749826">Those who feel that someone should be able to dump INT...not just to &quot;normal&quot; levels...but truly as a very low stat dump, and don't understand how the player acting as if this shouldn't have in game consequences or requirements is &quot;wrong&quot;, are actively engaging in, and providing a real life example of, dumping the INT stat.If a player dumped CON would you let her have the survival of a high CON character?If a player dumped STR would you let her add damage to her melee attacks, break her own chains, or lift the portcullis?If a player dumped CHA would you let her say her character is of flawless beauty AND let her RP out the most eloquent and charming seduction of the King's messenger?You can argue that some of the above examples are bounded by dice rolls...but that would just be abusing game mechanics to justify you letting a character with the intellect of an onion engage in sharp witted banter with a genius Wizard, or a learned scholar.&nbsp; You would just be justifying your ignoring a very important part of the game not covered by the rules...representation of the character as depicted by the stats that the player decided upon.&nbsp; You allow a player an advantage for setting a stat high, why are you so scared to give them the disadvantage that they chose in dumping a stat?&nbsp; At the very least, you would be ignoring that a Wizard isn't allowed this luxury...if they dumped STR, you wouldn't let the player say that they pushed their way through the rioting crowd easily...you wouldn't let the player say that they bend the bars of the cell because they say they do...you would know that the character, knowing that they are weak, wouldn't even try.&nbsp; Yet the player, who dumped their characters INT down to 6, gets to say that their mental midget character comes up with a brilliant plan involving timing of guard shifts, intuiting the meaning of the scraps of ancient lore the group found, or is able to otherwise act as if she was at least as smart as the player?Quit being such a horrid game master...or such a manipulative player.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Caffe Nightcap, post: 6767243, member: 6749826"] Those who feel that someone should be able to dump INT...not just to "normal" levels...but truly as a very low stat dump, and don't understand how the player acting as if this shouldn't have in game consequences or requirements is "wrong", are actively engaging in, and providing a real life example of, dumping the INT stat. If a player dumped CON would you let her have the survival of a high CON character? If a player dumped STR would you let her add damage to her melee attacks, break her own chains, or lift the portcullis? If a player dumped CHA would you let her say her character is of flawless beauty AND let her RP out the most eloquent and charming seduction of the King's messenger? You can argue that some of the above examples are bounded by dice rolls...but that would just be abusing game mechanics to justify you letting a character with the intellect of an onion engage in sharp witted banter with a genius Wizard, or a learned scholar. You would just be justifying your ignoring a very important part of the game not covered by the rules...representation of the character as depicted by the stats that the player decided upon. You allow a player an advantage for setting a stat high, why are you so scared to give them the disadvantage that they chose in dumping a stat? At the very least, you would be ignoring that a Wizard isn't allowed this luxury...if they dumped STR, you wouldn't let the player say that they pushed their way through the rioting crowd easily...you wouldn't let the player say that they bend the bars of the cell because they say they do...you would know that the character, knowing that they are weak, wouldn't even try. Yet the player, who dumped their characters INT down to 6, gets to say that their mental midget character comes up with a brilliant plan involving timing of guard shifts, intuiting the meaning of the scraps of ancient lore the group found, or is able to otherwise act as if she was at least as smart as the player? Quit being such a horrid game master...or such a manipulative player. [/QUOTE]

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