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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Minigiant" data-source="post: 6764976" data-attributes="member: 63508">To me, I think the ranger's gotta have magic.The fighter, barbarians, and rogue already coopted all the nonmagically aspects allowed in D&D outside of beastmastery and skirmishing. I fear a nonmagical ranger will gt outfought by the fighter's 3 attacks and outskilled by the rogue's expertise. Also many of the major fantasy rangers of the past who were in fantasy settings were magical, had magical elements, or had fantastical origin. True many time it came form their race or magic items.AragornJack the Giant Killer Orion Dar the BeastmasterRexxar Champion of the HordeDrzzt Do'UrdenHank the RangerJon SnowIt's like you can't really hunt mythical foes and survive in mythical wilderness without some kind of magic, be it learn magic, magical birth, racial magic, magic items, or a magic boon. With that said as opinion, the issue is then power. I don't think you can have a magical and nonmagical ranger in the same class.One side will suck compared to the other. In order to balance magic and nonmagical, the nonmagical has to be boosted A LOT.Fighters get 3-4 attacks, Action Surge, and Indomitable to match the fantasy of a wizard.Rogue deal a bunch of extra damage on a sneaky hit, get double proficiency bonus on 2-4 skills, AND cannot roll lower than a 10 on those skills.It just won't work. No offense to the WOTC design team but it would be too hard to suceed and too easy to fail.A better option is to create a new class for the "nonmagical ranger" and leave more area open for beastmasters and skrimsihers.Ranger (1/2 caster) Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer, Primeval Awarness HIPS, Vanish, Freal Senses, Foe Slayer-Hunter-Beast Master-Deep Stalker-Foe Predator-Ranger Lord"NeoRanger" (no magic) Skirmish, Keen Senses, Animal Ally, Fast Movement, Lightning Reflexes, Battle Fortitude, Battle Freedom-Scout-Lord of the Beast-Venomist-Stormwarden</blockquote>

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