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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadence" data-source="post: 8773976" data-attributes="member: 6701124">At first I thought this was supposed to be a parody of some arguments made against those longing for more 2e and 3e in there 5.5.  But then based on some of the responses I wasn't sure.   So now I'm confused.Are complaints about goodberry (which is pretty much the same in terms of the spell text itself as in 2e or 3e) because 5e doesn't have the instant death of 2e, or the -1 to -9 dying range of 3e? And so the berries combined with how 5e does 0 hp and death saves allows for really easy wack-a-moling? (Maybe dashed with some abuse of the Disciple of Life Cleric to make it "cast healing potions"?)This is the one that makes me think it must have been trying to be a parody. Tiny Hut in 2e and 3e didn't stop weapons or most spells, provided protection against sub-hurricane weather problems, and ameliorated quite a bit of temperature issues.   5e brings us an impenetrable low level wall of force.So this seems to obviously just an example of an incredible power update from 2e and 3e to 5e.(Granted, it now seems to match the inspiration in the original Vance better, but if I am I remembering right that that was a magic item and not a spell used as an escape by every mage everywhere?).These also seem odd choices to make the case about over-powered spells.  Mansion seems the same as 2e and 3e.  Fly seems about the same - except that it now requires concentration, and can be upcast to more targets.  Teleport is two levels higher than 2e or 3e, but works on a group of people.  I haven't heard tons of people complaining about those particular spells any more now than in the past.   Now low-level racial abilities on the other hand...And this has me befuddled.  Because both the lovers and haters of that edition would have huge lists of other changes as well that are probably more fundamental to gaming than losing pseudo-Vancian casting.  (The ones that seemingly randomly pop up in threads about anything).And 3rd edition was the one where I first saw the E6 rules come out (and the first one that had HP keep going up at the full rate to level 20 or whatnot) .  And 2e didn't really need it because the HP didn't keep climbing, it didn't have the omnipresent wands, and the spell-casters were crunchy.   And so this part has me thinking there might be a good dig in it at folks who think the "problem" just started with 5e and didn't go back to 3e.Maybe some things stick out more now to some players because 5e is supposed to be more balanced with less trap choices and bounded accuracy? In any case, I'm not sure what a veiled attempt at an edition war dig buys either "side".</blockquote>

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