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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ferratus" data-source="post: 4618148" data-attributes="member: 55966">I'd like to add a little to the "wizards suck" theme after arguing about sleep with a friend of mine a couple days ago.Wizards have changed in one important way, in that they don't base everything off intelligence anymore. In prior editions you just had to have the amount of intelligence necessary to cast the spell (and have a good attack vs. saving throw in 3e) and you just had to pick the best spell.I ran into problems with sleep because unlike Thunderwave, I didn't realize the importance of wisdom in sleep because it wasn't mentioned in the power. However, sleep is for those wizards who have a 20 Int and a 16-18 wisdom, and an "orb of imposition" class feature. The orb of imposition coupled with that wisdom score means it changes a 50% change of putting a foe to sleep to a 65-70% chance. You need the 20 Int to ensure you hit, because it is for dealing with actual creatures rather than minions. If you want to kill minions, you use freezing cloud.I could see how sleep could be an effective spell now with those improved chances to hit. I'm still not entirely sure that sleeping minions shouldn't be a solution, but then I suppose then it would have the minion control aspects of freezing cloud and the monster neutralizing power of sleep, making it a no-brainer.As for needing a 20 Int:9) You need a 20 in your primary stat. While BAB is a deeply flawed system and I'm glad they dropped it, one of the things it did for you was lessen your dependence on your ability scores. When you had +15 BAB, +6 to your primary ability, and a +4 weapon, it is only a small percentage of difference between the starting stat of 16 vs. starting stat of 20. However, I've got a 16 Int wizard, and I know that I am hitting 10% less often than the 20 Int wizard. What is more, there is nothing I can really do about to close the gap between me and the Eladrin. Anything I can get to improve my attack, so can he, and monster AC scales more accurately than in 3e as far as I can see.There are however ability swapping items (like the bracers of mental might) which also favour the guy with 20 stat. So I don't see why it would be a big problem to have "ability topping up" items. Now maybe I'm thinking this way because I miss the 2e 18(00) gauntlets of ogre power, but I don't see why it would be outrageous to have an item that turns a lower ability score into a 20. For example:Gauntlets of Ogre MightLevel 8You are considered to have a strength score of 20 for all strength based skills and strength based checks, but not attacks.Power (Encounter) You can make a strength based attack as if you had strength score of 20.  I simply don't see how it does anything to break the game. It's purpose would be to give the martial characters who have spread their scores for skill purposes (such as diplomacy etc.) a boost back up, and would serve the same benefit as bracers of mental might to help multiclassers be effective at their encounter powers.</blockquote>

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