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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9737292" data-attributes="member: 6790260">...Fine. Six to eight is there explicitly. Five I granted as a concession, to be generous. My apologies, for trying to give more grace than the text actually does.For God's sake, it's not even hard math.Champion, in 5.0, gets one extra crit every 20 attack rolls on average. For the first ten levels, they make no more than two attacks per Attack. This means that they need at least nine rounds (counting Action Surge) just to get +[W] damage--because remember, crits don't do extra static damage. Even if we assume the best possible value for [W], namely the greatsword's 2d6 with GWF (which averages to about 1.333... extra, total 8.333...), that means that, in nine rounds of combat, they get +8.333... extra damage. By comparison, the Battle Master is getting at minimum +4d8 = 18 extra damage every short rest. This means the Champion needs to get at least (18/8.333...)/2 = 10.8 Attack actions per SR to keep up--which means ~10 rounds of combat per short rest, factoring in 1 Action Surge per SR. Even if we assume 5-round combats, which are very long combats by everything I've ever been told about 5e, that still means you need a bare minimum of 6 combats (LR-> 2 combats -> SR -> 2 combats -> SR -> 2 combats -> LR) just to keep a decent pace with other Fighters....and Paladins do objectively better damage than Fighters with their spell slots spent on Smites.So....yeah. Sorry for trying to be generous.</blockquote>

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