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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9737430" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Some people, not all people.  I was a huge fan of the 2014 5E Monk and enjoyed playing them, using the 2024 rules I have played more Rangers and Rogues than anything else (counting the total number of levels per class) and they are widely regarded as the two weakest classes.  I would say most of the people I play with fall into this category.That is not to say I don't optimize, I heavily optimize in some of my games, but I optimize around what I want to play, I don't just pick what is optimal and play that.  I decide on an idea for a character first and then I figure out what mechanics I can put together to make that character idea work well.    For example I am playing a Pyromaniac Tiefling right now.   That is the fiction in a nutshell, that is what I wanted to build.  She is currently level 4 (F1/Warlock3).  Her progression will go like this - 1 level of Fighter, 4 levels of Warlock (Pact of Blade, Pact of Tome, Agonizing Green Flame Blade, Flames of Phelethegos), 10 more levels of fighter (Eldritch Knight, Warcaster, Shadow Touched), 4 levels of Paladin, and taking her last level as Fighter 12 for 2 epic boons.  She is a primary melee character with Agonizing Green Flame Blade, Flames of Phelethegos and Cleave and is going to be just fine every level despite not getting extra attack until level 9 (and not primarily using it until level 11).  She also has lots of other "fire" stuff - Chromatic Orb, Warlock subclass spells, Hellish Rebuke and firebolt from Tiefling, Produce Flame and Create Bonfire from POT....The Dragonborn "Ranger" I mentioned earlier (R13/B5/M1/D1) was a character designed to blow the doors off any other "face" build and grow into heavily using charms and fear and she did both in spades (until she ran out of spells and dragonfear).  The Monk level gave her a damage boost to stay competitive at low level and the Druid level gave her the boost to do ok, not great, melee damage when she needed to melee at high level (which she ended up needing to do far more often than planned).  I think this is my favorite character I have played to level 20, and I have played many.If the Realms subclasses are released unchanged I am going to play a half-orc (using Orc species) Bladesinger/Dead 3 Rogue (W8/R12 at games end).  Her story is "not safe for work", but suffice it to say there is a reason and story.There are certainly more powerful builds than any of these characters, but these characters will be/were good enough at all levels and spectacular at some things and some levels.I would disagree with this.  Balance really kills the story IME.  I know it works for some people, but not the games I play in. The mathematical equivalence is extremely difficult to achieve and when achieved it makes choices seem trivial.That is why I am so against the set number of encounters.  That is a mechanic without a story hook.</blockquote>

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