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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9741513" data-attributes="member: 6790260">My problem is, "fit neatly into existing class archetypes" has two versions:1. You're only adding a teeny tiny tweak to what this is, so a build/subclass/whatever is more than sufficient2. You're adding a TON, but it could conceivably fit into something else.Shaman and Alchemist are great examples of the latter. Druids can be forced into a "uses a spirit guide" form, but it takes a lot of heavy lifting and re-purposing, and is still an awkward, difficult fit. I really like the concept of the flame druid, for example--but ultimately it is trying to kludge a shaman-type character out of existing parts with a ton of extra work, rather than having that be what it is. Similarly, Artificer is about building things, not about concocting things, and is really really going to struggle to express that identity in a way that truly fits. (Further, an Alchemist is a great way to implement several archetypes that flatly DON'T fit into Artificer--such as a Dr. Frankenstein-y "reanimator", a Jekyll-and-Hyde split-personality type, a metamorph type, etc.), meaning that a lot more is gained from its inclusion than is lost from including both Artificer and Alchemist.And in at least one place, I think you're just straight-up wrong. Avenger doesn't fit into Paladin. It is not a Paladin--period. The only things it shares in common are "uses big weapons" and "has divine power". Actually implementing the Avenger as a Paladin is, quite simply, going to fail, for exactly the same reasons that trying to implement a Warlord as a Fighter has demonstrably failed. Indeed, Fighter and Warlord have significantly more in common than Paladin and Avenger do! Similar logic applies to Machinist vs Artificer. The machinist is not a spellcaster. What they do is not magical. It may still be supernatural--clockpunk/steampunk type stuff, where MAD SCIENCE can go a little bit beyond what is truly physically possible--but it isn't magic, whereas everything Artificers do is always, by definition, outright magical and usually outright spellcasting--it is binding magic to objects.Kind of surprised about the assassin. Yes, I'm aware of the subclass. But part of what prompted me to write this was, specifically, that people were deeply unsatisfied with the Assassin subclass and wanted it to be its own class.</blockquote>

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