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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wicht" data-source="post: 7664730" data-attributes="member: 221">I never hated 4e.  I never played it, but there was no hatred. Disappointment was probably the strongest emotion. And it was not solely mechanics. The whole timbre of the edition, from the world-view, to the dropping of alignment, to the assumed style of play, rubbed me wrong and made me feel uninterested in trying it. But there was never animosity. Its not in my nature to wish ill on others, or even to cheer against the other guys in sports. I want everyone to do their very best. But 4e was not the game for me.However, when one says that, there are others who have consistently jumped to the conclusion that you must be some sort of irrational hater and who close their ears to actual conversation about the reasons. Such close-mindedness leads to some other problems, like an inability to see that the number of people who grew tired of 4e swiftly approached the number of those who simply did not care for it. It also leads to a lack of empathy and a lot of bad assumptions about what it was that made the edition more unpopular than popular.My 30+ years of gaming doesn't quite have Mark's pedigree, but I see a lot of what he sees. As a RPG, 4e lacked something that a lot of RPGers actually want. One can explain it by pointing to the combat styles. Personally, I am not sure that completely explains it. But instead of pointing to the similarities between 4e and 5e and use those to justify 4e, it is probably more worthwhile to look at what they did different and try to understand those differences (at least assuming 5e continues to have success). (One could say the same about the success PFRPG enjoyed that 4e did not. Look at what was different and try to understand why the one was more popular.  Hint - if you think it was "validation" keep looking. 2nd Hint - notice what people are clamoring for from 5e at the moment, and what they are excited about).</blockquote>

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