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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7664835" data-attributes="member: 42582">You second sentence is a non-sequitur.Suppose it's true that A and B have X in common. Suppose also that some people have cited X as a reason for dislike of A. [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] is asserting that those people also have a reason to dislike B.It doesn't follow that those who like A should like B. Perhaps, for them, X is a necessary but not sufficient condition of liking something.Now when you take the situation out of my simplistic example and into the real world, [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]'s claim has to be more nuanced. For instance, it is open to someone who disliked A because of X to explain that the X-iness of B doesn't make them dislike B because B has some other feature that negates or transforms or obscures its X-iness. I'd be very interested, personally, to hear posts along these lines (probably not in this thread) from players who disliked 4e martial encounter powers but like the 5e superiority dice - I can conjecture what some of the differences might be, and would expect to see some of those conjectures confirmed, but it would be interesting to hear about it from those actually having the experience.But the possibility of nuance doesn't change the fact that your claim is a non-sequitur. From the fact that 5e contains many mechanical features very similar to those that were widely complained of in 4e, it doesn't follow that any given 4e fan should like 5e. It might have other stuff that 4e dropped (eg "real world" spell durations that can tend to encourage illusionistic GMing) or not have stuff that 4e included (eg "subjective" DCs).I mean, 3E also has a lot of stuff in common with 4e: a somewhat comparable action economy, d20 rolls to hit, combat victory by hit point ablation (at least at low-ish levels), same stat system, comparable default magic item load-out, etc. So if someone didn't like these features of 3E (eg they were a die-hard Runequest player) you might expect them not to like 4e either. It wouldn't follow that 3E fans would like 4e, nor vice versa.</blockquote>

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