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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7664872" data-attributes="member: 42582">This is what I'm getting at when I say the two systems produce different fictions, with different story structures. The "tiers" - from Heroic to Epic - are central to 4e, whereas 5e has no comparable default story structure, and tends to actively push against it.But as you say, these different approaches to story are built on very comparable mechanical frameworks.Yes. In my 4e game there is a lot of scope for DCs of 40 (Hard) with characters having bonuses of +14 to +16. Those PCs can't succeed without some sort of boost.At 11th level, there was scope for DCs of 27 (Hard) with character having bonuses of +4 to +6. Those PCs coudn't succeed without some sort of boost.In 5e there is an interesting tendency to have made ACs a bit lower relative to 4e, and to have made skill DCs overall a bit higher.The AC thing I understand - it is part of speeding up combat. The skill thing is a little opaque to me, but perhaps it is to compensate for the increased likelihood of advantage on skill checks.But the overall spreads are not radically different.</blockquote>