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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 7665692" data-attributes="member: 7635">I see no closed case. I see someone who set a very narrow parameter (no arcane spells in the PH1) and then ignores books that came out only a few months later that proved him wrong. Yes, yes I do have for exactly the reasons you /listed/ in slashes. A fighter in 4e cannot cast ray of frost with his (nonmagical) longsword. But it doesn't matter; the fact is he is using the exact same mechanical expression. That expression makes it look (at a mechanical level) like the same thing. By that logic, neither is a druid's wildshape. Complete natural and mundane ability, right? Again, if you had any more strawmen I'd think you ran a scarecrow business.In 5e, a battlemaster fighter makes an attack roll (using the regular combat rules, including picking Str or Dex to hit) and then spends a superiority die to create an effect. A wizard uses a spell slot to create a magical effect and forces the foe to make a special ability check (called a saving throw) against the effect. These are two very different styles of mechanical resolution, no?In 4e, the fighter uses an encounter power (using the power to determine what ability score to hit with) and then does the effect as described. A wizard uses an encounter power to create a magical effect that requires him to roll to hit (using the same power resolution mechanic as the fighter, swapping Int for Str and AC for, say, Ref) and does the effect as described. Very similar, no? This similarity of how martial and magical effects resolve create sameness. There is little difference mechanically between spellcasting and non-spellcasting attacks, save a few keywords and limitations. Since all classes shared the same bonus (1/2 level), same ADEU power structure, and same power resolution mechanic, classes felt too similar compared the very different styles a fighter and wizard played as under 1, 2, 3, and 5e.There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.Either way, history was on my side. Come 2010, ADEU was being experimented on (see Psionics, Essentials) and the one-size-fits-all system was abandoned come 5e. I'm satisfied.</blockquote>

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