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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9596023" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Irrelevant to the point I was making--unless you recognize the reworks as WotC saying, "oh, sorry guys, we get that this option is popular but unsatisfactory, we'll fix it." In which case, the fact that they fixed it is an admission that something can be simultaneously, by WotC's own data and admission, widely-played but unsatisfactory.In other words, we cannot argue that because people do something a lot, they must be happy with it. We have actual, documented evidence that people play things they're unsatisfied with. The argument doesn't just not hold water, we have an actual, documented case with Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition specifically where that argument objectively failed.It's only a point I've been arguing for 4-5 years, which got brushed aside, ignored, mocked. Repeatedly. And now that we can actually prove it? Would you look at that, nobody wants to talk about it anymore. Who'da thunk it?"Popularity" confuses the issue by conflating different meanings. People use things a lot. Sometimes, they use them because they're loved for being exactly the specific things they are. Sometimes, they use them because they like the concept, but are sour on the execution. Sometimes, they don't even like the thing at all, but play it for some other reason.We cannot reason from "it is widely used" to "therefore, it is good." Not in terms of user satisfaction, not in terms of effectiveness at achieving the goals for which it was designed, not even in terms of whether it was wisely-chosen for inclusion within the game. All we can say is that there is something about it that convinces people to use it. We need more information to say more--and, unfortunately, most of the time there isn't more information to be had. That WotC has absolutely rubbish data-collection and analysis certainly doesn't help matters, but even if it were absolutely top-notch on that front, they'll never share most of their data with us, and even what they do share may not answer the questions we're trying to ask.</blockquote>

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