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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7560008" data-attributes="member: 6704184">I am curious about both, but I wanted to start by talking about how a true swordmage could be built in 5e as it is, and from there see what is still missing. I think a new class with a purpose built spell list, and some new features to make it really sing, would be a fairly small amount of work. I'd make it an Int caster who chooses between Strength and Dex just like a fighter, gets cantrips, doesn't get Extra Attack and instead gets something like a bonus action attack when casting a cantrip, and get's either a d8 or d10 hit die, with at least one subclass or Aegis option that boosts durability into real tank range, but other options that focus more on mobility and hitting hard, or control, etc. I'd probably give the base class a Mark ability, but have the Aegis options determine what it does beyond what a Mark does in the DMG optional rule. Nonsense. Firstly, the class can have a spell list that mostly interacts with themselves and objects, and still have plenty of out of combat spell utility. Second, a classes spell list doesn't need to be strictly focused on their main thing. It's fine to have some spells that reach outside that narrow focus. A swordmage with some spells like Unseen Servant isn't less &quot;swordmagey&quot; than one without such spells. Sure it was. You made an assertion about something being weird without supporting it in any way, so I asked why you think it's weird. &quot;Why not&quot; is a non-response. Why is it weird? What is weird about it?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7560008, member: 6704184"] I am curious about both, but I wanted to start by talking about how a true swordmage could be built in 5e as it is, and from there see what is still missing. I think a new class with a purpose built spell list, and some new features to make it really sing, would be a fairly small amount of work. I'd make it an Int caster who chooses between Strength and Dex just like a fighter, gets cantrips, doesn't get Extra Attack and instead gets something like a bonus action attack when casting a cantrip, and get's either a d8 or d10 hit die, with at least one subclass or Aegis option that boosts durability into real tank range, but other options that focus more on mobility and hitting hard, or control, etc. I'd probably give the base class a Mark ability, but have the Aegis options determine what it does beyond what a Mark does in the DMG optional rule. Nonsense. Firstly, the class can have a spell list that mostly interacts with themselves and objects, and still have plenty of out of combat spell utility. Second, a classes spell list doesn't need to be strictly focused on their main thing. It's fine to have some spells that reach outside that narrow focus. A swordmage with some spells like Unseen Servant isn't less "swordmagey" than one without such spells. Sure it was. You made an assertion about something being weird without supporting it in any way, so I asked why you think it's weird. "Why not" is a non-response. Why is it weird? What is weird about it? [/QUOTE]

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