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A 5th Edition: And It's About Time
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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 5795210" data-attributes="member: 3192"><p>I think one of the things about common (iconic?) D&D monsters sticking around meaningfully is how they are structured culturally. Orcs came 30 to 300, but this wasn't necessarily bumping into them all and saying "Pardon me". As a skirmish game that's a nightmare (though you could handle with as a mass battle). Rather, this was an encampment, a settlement where the PCs are in an urban environment - though it may not look like a human one. The Caves of Chaos are a good example. </p><p></p><p>In the Caves a high level group could approach the whole affair as a one night session of ongoing combat thru many rooms, perhaps even smoking everyone outside, or some other ingenious plan you'd expect from high level PC players. The challenge remains meaningful because the diverse elements in the Caves join forces against their common enemy, the PCs. They are mostly low level, but together they are strong. Would a kick down the door strategy work well for 1st level PCs? Let's just say, not even the small Orc clan are going to commit more than a "good enough" force to give them their beat down. They'd rather sleep. </p><p></p><p>I think many options with less "can't lose" abilities offers this kind of play, while still allowing for Orcs to hang around in the world when PCs get up to high levels. It's not as if all the Orcs of the world leveled up to 10th too. (Not that there aren't some nasty ones around) That's what I think Monte is talking about and I give him high props for it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>==><u>Aside</u>: [sblock]I should point out, I like to think different classes are suited to different strategies when it comes to combat. Mages warp the world around them!; Fighters lead from the front and take out swaths of lesser warriors; Thieves sneak in, take everything, and leave the place unlivable ("How do we eat now?"). Clerics on the other hand, what do they do? Hmm... Here's my estimation of a high level cleric run by a masterful player:</p><p></p><p>The cleric goes down to the 1st room of dungeon level 1. There are goblins here, though few. The cleric uses his divine powers, wiles, and talent for converting others to convince the goblins to join him. He does the same in room 2 (it's probably easier as the others are already following him). After that it's the whole level. As they go down to level 2 the challenge is upholding morale and loyalty, not necessarily withstanding a confrontation. He does this all the way down gaining followers and power (big time cleric treasure) as well as goods and information until he finds the BBEG. Then? Well he tries to convert him too, because "why stop here?" But maybe this bad boy is a little out of reach. Or maybe he's an Archdevil or something else naturally evil and vile. If that BBEG hasn't had the wisdom to get out of Dodge City yet, then he's in line for a colossal smackdown. ...and almost every one of them holding a stick is from his puny, worthless minion horde. (Which he probably called them most of the time too).[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 5795210, member: 3192"] I think one of the things about common (iconic?) D&D monsters sticking around meaningfully is how they are structured culturally. Orcs came 30 to 300, but this wasn't necessarily bumping into them all and saying "Pardon me". As a skirmish game that's a nightmare (though you could handle with as a mass battle). Rather, this was an encampment, a settlement where the PCs are in an urban environment - though it may not look like a human one. The Caves of Chaos are a good example. In the Caves a high level group could approach the whole affair as a one night session of ongoing combat thru many rooms, perhaps even smoking everyone outside, or some other ingenious plan you'd expect from high level PC players. The challenge remains meaningful because the diverse elements in the Caves join forces against their common enemy, the PCs. They are mostly low level, but together they are strong. Would a kick down the door strategy work well for 1st level PCs? Let's just say, not even the small Orc clan are going to commit more than a "good enough" force to give them their beat down. They'd rather sleep. I think many options with less "can't lose" abilities offers this kind of play, while still allowing for Orcs to hang around in the world when PCs get up to high levels. It's not as if all the Orcs of the world leveled up to 10th too. (Not that there aren't some nasty ones around) That's what I think Monte is talking about and I give him high props for it. ==>[U]Aside[/U]: [sblock]I should point out, I like to think different classes are suited to different strategies when it comes to combat. Mages warp the world around them!; Fighters lead from the front and take out swaths of lesser warriors; Thieves sneak in, take everything, and leave the place unlivable ("How do we eat now?"). Clerics on the other hand, what do they do? Hmm... Here's my estimation of a high level cleric run by a masterful player: The cleric goes down to the 1st room of dungeon level 1. There are goblins here, though few. The cleric uses his divine powers, wiles, and talent for converting others to convince the goblins to join him. He does the same in room 2 (it's probably easier as the others are already following him). After that it's the whole level. As they go down to level 2 the challenge is upholding morale and loyalty, not necessarily withstanding a confrontation. He does this all the way down gaining followers and power (big time cleric treasure) as well as goods and information until he finds the BBEG. Then? Well he tries to convert him too, because "why stop here?" But maybe this bad boy is a little out of reach. Or maybe he's an Archdevil or something else naturally evil and vile. If that BBEG hasn't had the wisdom to get out of Dodge City yet, then he's in line for a colossal smackdown. ...and almost every one of them holding a stick is from his puny, worthless minion horde. (Which he probably called them most of the time too).[/sblock] [/QUOTE]
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