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Message: <blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 6345945" data-attributes="member: 59057">First: I have played nearly every bard in the bard handbook of 2e and played bards in 3e and a little in 4eSome things I noticed in your text:,You are contradicting yourselfThe bard in 2e was nearly a full spellcaster as you mentioned. His generous xp progression allowed him to have level 3 spells at the same time the wizard does and then he casts at lvl 7, not 5. He has slightly less spells per day and so it evens out.  Now in 5e he is finally a full spellcaster again. So actually his focus on spellcasting is not really more than in 2e.The bard has a lot of skills, and is capable of fighting (like in 2e) d6 hp in 2e with fast progresion equals d8 here.In 2e, as per RAW, the bard did not sing during the fight, but he had to sing before the fight to bolster his allies. So all in all,  the 5e bard is very comparable to the 2e bard.I do believ bolsteing allies will be done via spellcasting. There really is no need to have additional layers. His spells are his songs. And if you add subclasses, there will most probably be a subclass that bolsters allies during fights. [MENTION=39652]Yo[/MENTION]ur opinion about the bards tier in 3e:I don´t agree with you. In 3.0 the bard was really somewhere at the bottom of the barrel. Especially when you compare 2e with 3e (his spellcasting and hp was toally nerfed, both in selection of spells as in power, due to xp progression) It was sad. 3.5 remedied a bit by giving him some exclusive spells and shifting some bard spells to lower levels (tasha´s hideous loughter) and allowing him to cast in armor, which even the 2e bard was not allowed. Pathfinder (although i don´t play it) made the bard decent again, by upping hp, spellcasting and skills.Last, the 5e playtest bard was quite imbalanced. Too few hp, and spellcasting. Way overpowered battle songs. Not working for a base class.</blockquote>

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