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<blockquote data-quote="Tzarevitch" data-source="post: 202667" data-attributes="member: 1792">Personally I fail to see why people keep complaining about this class in particular. It does have some mechanical problems and a moderate upside but is has a huge downside. In my opinion that downside makes it suicidal to use this class as a PC.Three words: &quot;Permanent&quot; &quot;Ability&quot; &quot;Drain&quot;. &nbsp;Without magic you cannot fix this. Level drainers are also a big problem but at least you get a save (assuming you survive the day). Undead drainers of all types (especially incorporeal ones) are the bane of your existance. Unless you've broken magic items recently (I think that part of the class is stupid beyone words), you don't have any way to strike a non-corporeal undead and you'll have a devil of a time even with corporeal ones because you can't crit them to help you breach DR. Also without magic you are going to be easy to hit. Against incorporeal undead your AC is basically your Dex, Dodge and Expertise if you have it. They will hit you early and often. I think the Foresaker was poorly thought with regard to the part of constantly needing to break magic items but it is not that bad a class. The problem comes when the DM lets the PCs do something whacky like half-dragon/were-tiger or whatever it was. The problem isn't with the Forsaker class, the problem is with the DM allowing the player to play a half-dragon lycanthrope. (Honestly I would've said that you cannot have both templates. If the character contracts lycanthropy it overrides his dragon blood, it doesn't stack with it.) In my Dark Sun campaign psionics are different and foresakers do exist who foresake arcane magic but not divine magic or psionics. I ruled that they only get their SR against the effects that they foresake. Problem solved. For the Grand Prize Winners for stupid prestige classes try: Ghostwalker, Warmaster and Fang of Lolth. With some minor fixes Foresaker is not that bad (not that I'd ever play one). Tzarevitch</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tzarevitch, post: 202667, member: 1792"] Personally I fail to see why people keep complaining about this class in particular. It does have some mechanical problems and a moderate upside but is has a huge downside. In my opinion that downside makes it suicidal to use this class as a PC. Three words: "Permanent" "Ability" "Drain". Without magic you cannot fix this. Level drainers are also a big problem but at least you get a save (assuming you survive the day). Undead drainers of all types (especially incorporeal ones) are the bane of your existance. Unless you've broken magic items recently (I think that part of the class is stupid beyone words), you don't have any way to strike a non-corporeal undead and you'll have a devil of a time even with corporeal ones because you can't crit them to help you breach DR. Also without magic you are going to be easy to hit. Against incorporeal undead your AC is basically your Dex, Dodge and Expertise if you have it. They will hit you early and often. I think the Foresaker was poorly thought with regard to the part of constantly needing to break magic items but it is not that bad a class. The problem comes when the DM lets the PCs do something whacky like half-dragon/were-tiger or whatever it was. The problem isn't with the Forsaker class, the problem is with the DM allowing the player to play a half-dragon lycanthrope. (Honestly I would've said that you cannot have both templates. If the character contracts lycanthropy it overrides his dragon blood, it doesn't stack with it.) In my Dark Sun campaign psionics are different and foresakers do exist who foresake arcane magic but not divine magic or psionics. I ruled that they only get their SR against the effects that they foresake. Problem solved. For the Grand Prize Winners for stupid prestige classes try: Ghostwalker, Warmaster and Fang of Lolth. With some minor fixes Foresaker is not that bad (not that I'd ever play one). Tzarevitch [/QUOTE]

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