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A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology
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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 8104858" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>I wonder if the argument here is dependant on two different ways to see these adventure books.</p><p></p><p>Some people are reading the books as-is and concluding that the story they recite makes no sense and is not logical and at the end of the day faulty and stupid. It appears as though they are treating this book as its own contained story in of itself.</p><p></p><p>Other people see what is written in all these books and are finding all manner of reasons why the things written either don't matter, are easily worked around, will influence what occurs but not necessarily be played out as-is, or can be completely ignored. If I had to guess... I would say that these people might believe the story isn't actually what is in the book, but is what actually <em>ends up occuring at the table.</em></p><p></p><p>Those are two very different ways of looking at the book and this game.</p><p></p><p>If the only story that matters is what actually occurs while playing the adventure... then the DM has full capability of giving out "truth". Thus anything in the book that is never actually mentioned to the players... is never commented on... is never placed down as part of the fiction the entire table is building... then any of the "issues" with the story in the book itself <strong>do not actually exist</strong>. If it isn't mentioned or doesn't happen, it's not true.</p><p></p><p>This conundrum is something that has been argued about for literally years. Is something true in this game because the rules allow it to potentially be true... or is only true if it actually occurs? Case in point... the idea that Rogues make for the best Arcanists. They have the potential to take Expertise in Arcana and have a 20 INT at Level 20... and thus they will always potentially be better at Arcana than Wizards (which runs counter to how people think the game should be.) The only issue is... if you never once SEE a 20th Level Rogue player actually take Expertise in Arcana <em>and</em> max out INT <em>and</em> is in a party next to a Wizard character with proficiency in Arcana and also 20 INT (thus having the two standing next to each other with the Rogue demonstrably better at Arcana)... then does the <em>potential actually matter</em>? Does it matter that the book could allow a Rogue like this to exist... even if none ever actually do? And thus is it worth getting up in arms about it?</p><p></p><p>If the problems with farming and husbandry and two years of winter never actually come up in the game as run by a specific DM... do those problems actually exist just because someone wrote them down in the book? Some will say 'yes, absolutely', others will say 'no, of course not'. Because every DM is different. And that's why the authors of all these adventures do not seem to worry about these potential logical inconsistencies... they care more about making compelling scenarios and potential narratives. Because they know full well that every DM who runs this game is going to take what they like, toss out the rest, and not a single story that comes out of it will be the same. So they don't need to present an airtight written narrative package, because that's not what this book is for. It's not meant to be a story read unto itself, it's merely a depository of ideas that every DM can draw from to create their own story at the table.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 8104858, member: 7006"] I wonder if the argument here is dependant on two different ways to see these adventure books. Some people are reading the books as-is and concluding that the story they recite makes no sense and is not logical and at the end of the day faulty and stupid. It appears as though they are treating this book as its own contained story in of itself. Other people see what is written in all these books and are finding all manner of reasons why the things written either don't matter, are easily worked around, will influence what occurs but not necessarily be played out as-is, or can be completely ignored. If I had to guess... I would say that these people might believe the story isn't actually what is in the book, but is what actually [I]ends up occuring at the table.[/I] Those are two very different ways of looking at the book and this game. If the only story that matters is what actually occurs while playing the adventure... then the DM has full capability of giving out "truth". Thus anything in the book that is never actually mentioned to the players... is never commented on... is never placed down as part of the fiction the entire table is building... then any of the "issues" with the story in the book itself [B]do not actually exist[/B]. If it isn't mentioned or doesn't happen, it's not true. This conundrum is something that has been argued about for literally years. Is something true in this game because the rules allow it to potentially be true... or is only true if it actually occurs? Case in point... the idea that Rogues make for the best Arcanists. They have the potential to take Expertise in Arcana and have a 20 INT at Level 20... and thus they will always potentially be better at Arcana than Wizards (which runs counter to how people think the game should be.) The only issue is... if you never once SEE a 20th Level Rogue player actually take Expertise in Arcana [I]and[/I] max out INT [I]and[/I] is in a party next to a Wizard character with proficiency in Arcana and also 20 INT (thus having the two standing next to each other with the Rogue demonstrably better at Arcana)... then does the [I]potential actually matter[/I]? Does it matter that the book could allow a Rogue like this to exist... even if none ever actually do? And thus is it worth getting up in arms about it? If the problems with farming and husbandry and two years of winter never actually come up in the game as run by a specific DM... do those problems actually exist just because someone wrote them down in the book? Some will say 'yes, absolutely', others will say 'no, of course not'. Because every DM is different. And that's why the authors of all these adventures do not seem to worry about these potential logical inconsistencies... they care more about making compelling scenarios and potential narratives. Because they know full well that every DM who runs this game is going to take what they like, toss out the rest, and not a single story that comes out of it will be the same. So they don't need to present an airtight written narrative package, because that's not what this book is for. It's not meant to be a story read unto itself, it's merely a depository of ideas that every DM can draw from to create their own story at the table. [/QUOTE]
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