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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Shadow" data-source="post: 5998776" data-attributes="member: 16760">I think each class needs to pull its own weight, so to speak.  If the paladin,  ranger, and barbarian are going to just be fighters-with-a-few-tricks-and-no-bonus-feats, then they don't need to be classes;  they should be specialties and/or fighting styles.  If they're to be classes, they need to be truly distinctive.Along the same lines, the assassin should simply be a rogue scheme, plus perhaps also a specialty.  It just isn't distinctive enough.  (If you want a shadow-dancing assassin, multiclass with a shadow-pact warlock or something.)About the bard.  I see it as a class in an identity crisis;  there's too many archetypes it's trying to emulate.  Some possibilities:Celtic myth:  Bards are learned men, part of the druidic hierarchy.  Their songs are especially focussed on illusions and enchantments.  They don't particularly have anything rogue-like about them, though they can handle a sword when the need arises.  They should get something like Bardic Lore, but they don't tend to pick locks.This could be modelled on an encounter-based system, sort of like the warlock.  Heck, in some legendary sources, bards *are* basically warlocks, having a pact with a muse of some sort.  The druidic connection needn't be pressed, given on the campaign, but I find it interesting.Song magic:  Especially in modern fantasy, there's an archetype of a user of magic who uses music as the vehicle for spells.  (Though the Kalevala is also like this, to be fair.)  This strikes me as a sorcerer origin - not so much a bloodline, as someone who is so imbued with music that they can change reality.  Since origins can grant weapon and armor proficiencies, you can give them rapiers and light armor if you want.  I don't know if origins can alter the sorcerer spell list, but if you could weight it toward illusions and so on, this would look a lot like the 3e bard.  But I don't know that you need to - Vainamoinen could do all sorts of crazy things by singing.You could also fluff nearly any spellcaster as using music if you want.  Add a couple common-sense restrictions and benefits (you have to be able to speak and/or play to cast, etc) and you're good to go.Minstrel:  The 2e and 3e bards are rogues who have some musical abilities and magic.  If you want things like the bardic Inspire Competence and so on, that seems ready-made for a specialty, or even a rogue scheme.  Multiclass a bit into sorcerer if you want.But if the bard is to be a class of its own, I think the Celtic version shows the most promise.  And that's what the designers have been talking about, so cool. [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]:  The idea of a warlock-like paladin intrigues me greatly.  That makes a lot of sense to me - the paladin has a connection to his deity that is quite distinct from that of a cleric.Expanding the analogy a bit more, there are the equivalent of invocations, which all holy warriors can learn.  Then individual gods grant specific boons to their paladins.  What about ritual (divine) magic?One trouble with Smites is that they should do truly impressive amounts of damage, since they're more situational than a fighter's Deadly Strike. [MENTION=807]fba827[/MENTION]:  Trading CS dice for healing simply won't work, as they refresh every round.  It's an interesting thought in general, though.  Maybe for healing, they could instead spend a CS die in order to give X of their hit dice to someone else to roll? [MENTION=71811]Badapple[/MENTION]:  I think that 'berserker' could easily be a fighting style, with Rage abilities that require the user to wear at most light armor.  Rather than more hit points, they'd have CS abilities to ignore wounds (ie, heal damage, perhaps temporarily).That said, your idea is interesting and could probably be expanded into a class. [MENTION=48555]1of3[/MENTION]:  Your totem ideas are cool, but why limit them to berserkers?</blockquote>

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