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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6682149" data-attributes="member: 6696971">If you want to know where the &quot;system matters&quot; essays/premise and design impetus for narrative mechanics came from, Aenghus has given you a solid abridged history above.&nbsp; However, going back a bit further to the driving aspect of all of this was White Wolf's major contribution to the milieu; their informal &quot;system doesn't matter&quot; motto (pushed in the marketing of their games or in public comments by designers) and their formal Golden Rule which basically says, “The GM may ignore or change any rule at any time.”&nbsp; And you'll see a GMing ethos that says something like this:&nbsp; &quot;Whenever rules and story conflict, the story wins. Use the rules only as much - or preferably as little - as you need to tell thrilling stories of terror, action and romance.&quot;&nbsp; Does any of that sound familiar?The WW and D&amp;D cultures &quot;fought&quot; during the 2e era and out of that came multiple sub-cultures.&nbsp; One of them was a sort of merger, an ill-conceived (imo) marriage of D&amp;D with the WW ethos, that&nbsp; [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] was talking about.&nbsp; Whereas WW was gothic horror/supernatural romance &quot;storyteller&quot;, AD&amp;D 2e worked to become the pulp heroic fantasy &quot;storyteller&quot; analogue.For a certain cross-segment of folks who (a) wanted emergent gameplay + maximal player agency rather than rail-roaded metaplot and heavy-handed, force-laden GMing, (b) couldn't stand the WW ethos, and (c) really hated AD&amp;D 2e's buy-in, these were &quot;dark times&quot;.&nbsp; &quot;System matters&quot; and narrative mechanics were a direct response to this.&nbsp; If you want to say that WW and AD&amp;D 2e were the mainstream games of the early 90s, then sure, &quot;system matters&quot; and narrative mechanics were a direct response by independent designers who were responding to the current mainstream design philosophy (with which they disagreed vehemently).Tweet and Laws were probably the most notable early pioneers with Over the Edge and Feng Shui (Ars Magica has an interesting role to play here as well, given its design influence by a major WW player).&nbsp; Then you have the &quot;indie renaissance&quot; that was kicked off in the early 2000s with Crane and Burning Wheel, Hicks/Donaghue's Fate.&nbsp; Then you have the stuff that spun out of the Forge; Dogs in the Vineyard (Baker), Sorcerer (Edwards), My Life With Master (Czege), Shadows of Yesterday (Nixon).&nbsp; It continues from there with all the Cortex + stuff, Mouse Guard, D&amp;D 4e (not indie in terms of publisher, but obviously heavily indie-influenced), Apocalypse World, Dungeon World, all the other PBtA stuff, and 13th Age by Tweet (OtE and Ars Magica) and Heinsoo (4e).In those games, system does matter.&nbsp; Fidelity to highly functional rules and play procedures do matter.&nbsp; This is because, when done skillfully, spinning out of that should be maximal player agency and emergent story.&nbsp; Suspension or abridgement of the resolution mechanics by GM whim (in the interest of story or anything else) and railroads are literally anathema.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6682149, member: 6696971"] If you want to know where the "system matters" essays/premise and design impetus for narrative mechanics came from, Aenghus has given you a solid abridged history above. However, going back a bit further to the driving aspect of all of this was White Wolf's major contribution to the milieu; their informal "system doesn't matter" motto (pushed in the marketing of their games or in public comments by designers) and their formal Golden Rule which basically says, “The GM may ignore or change any rule at any time.” And you'll see a GMing ethos that says something like this: "Whenever rules and story conflict, the story wins. Use the rules only as much - or preferably as little - as you need to tell thrilling stories of terror, action and romance." Does any of that sound familiar? The WW and D&D cultures "fought" during the 2e era and out of that came multiple sub-cultures. One of them was a sort of merger, an ill-conceived (imo) marriage of D&D with the WW ethos, that [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] was talking about. Whereas WW was gothic horror/supernatural romance "storyteller", AD&D 2e worked to become the pulp heroic fantasy "storyteller" analogue. For a certain cross-segment of folks who (a) wanted emergent gameplay + maximal player agency rather than rail-roaded metaplot and heavy-handed, force-laden GMing, (b) couldn't stand the WW ethos, and (c) really hated AD&D 2e's buy-in, these were "dark times". "System matters" and narrative mechanics were a direct response to this. If you want to say that WW and AD&D 2e were the mainstream games of the early 90s, then sure, "system matters" and narrative mechanics were a direct response by independent designers who were responding to the current mainstream design philosophy (with which they disagreed vehemently). Tweet and Laws were probably the most notable early pioneers with Over the Edge and Feng Shui (Ars Magica has an interesting role to play here as well, given its design influence by a major WW player). Then you have the "indie renaissance" that was kicked off in the early 2000s with Crane and Burning Wheel, Hicks/Donaghue's Fate. Then you have the stuff that spun out of the Forge; Dogs in the Vineyard (Baker), Sorcerer (Edwards), My Life With Master (Czege), Shadows of Yesterday (Nixon). It continues from there with all the Cortex + stuff, Mouse Guard, D&D 4e (not indie in terms of publisher, but obviously heavily indie-influenced), Apocalypse World, Dungeon World, all the other PBtA stuff, and 13th Age by Tweet (OtE and Ars Magica) and Heinsoo (4e). In those games, system does matter. Fidelity to highly functional rules and play procedures do matter. This is because, when done skillfully, spinning out of that should be maximal player agency and emergent story. Suspension or abridgement of the resolution mechanics by GM whim (in the interest of story or anything else) and railroads are literally anathema. [/QUOTE]

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