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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6682991" data-attributes="member: 6677017">Thanks for the conversation--it's helped me figure out what it is that I'm trying to get at.Let's start with what you said here, because it is a key. The GM cannot both discover/explore something and create/invent it at the same time.I think that you are correct in that, and I think it can apply equally to players. If you are creating you are not discovering.I've decided that timing doesn't matter.What matters is whether the GM is creating material in direct response to player choices. If he does so, the players are creating the world rather than discovering it.As an example, let's say that there are 6 taverns at a particular waterfront that the characters are wandering around in. The GM knows that there is certain NPC in the area that the players or their characters have some reason to want to interact or not interact with. They walk into the first tavern. The GM chooses one of two methods to determine whether or not the NPC is there.1) He decides what makes sense from the perspective of the world, regardless of any considerations directly derived from the PCs or their players. He can do this by referencing pre-existing information about the NPC, or he can make it up on the spot. But if he makes it up on the spot it has nothing to do with the PCs or their players. In order to assist him in doing this, he might want to assign a likelihood and randomly determine it with dice. It's a way for him to keep himself from being influenced by those other factors.2) He can decide that the NPC is there (or not) based on what would be the most desirable, interesting, or plot-advancing to the PCs or their players.In the latter case the GM is creating the content in reaction to the PCs or players, and therefore they are in effect creating it. You walk into a dark cave. You have an aspect (er...flaw) "Deathly afraid of spiders." Are there going to be giant spiders in that cave? Yep! Take a Fate point (er, I mean Inspiration).Either situation is fun to play (for me at least), but they are most definitely extremely different experiences. If the GM bases his creative activity on the PCs or players, they are creating the world, and therefore they aren't discovering it.From the rest of your post (back on page 13), it looks like you were primarily discussing the timing, so we may not have any current disagreement. I thought it was important, though, to share exactly what the relevant elements were for me: which is whether players are creating or discovering the world.</blockquote>

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