Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
A Chivalrous Compromise for Paladin
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Haldrik" data-source="post: 5916031" data-attributes="member: 6694221"><p>The Paladin encompasses - and in some ways personifies - deep disagreements about the definition of D&D.</p><p> </p><p>• There are those who insist on enforcing alignments - and even exclusively one alignment only: Lawful Good.</p><p> </p><p>• There are those who insist on alignments being personal roleplay choices (similar to picking a gender) without any mechanical restrictions - and many insist alignment as a system cease to exist.</p><p> </p><p>Notably, both of these factions are roughly equal in number. Both are passionate and entrench within various official traditions.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>D&D Next has little choice but come up with a solution that most players can live with.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Personally, I am in the faction that is skeptical about the utility of alignments. I like the Altruistic (Good) versus Predatory (Evil) trope, and the Societal (Lawful) versus the Individual (Chaos) trope. However, I philosophically oppose coercive rules for these. (Coercing Good is the opposite of Good.) Moreover I will not play a game whose rules mechanically punish players who violate arbitrary alignment definitions - definitions that often prove nonsensical in too many situations.</p><p> </p><p>(Moreover, my characters, including Clerics, have never worshiped deities. Thus dedication to one of the gods is a nonstarter.)</p><p> </p><p>So, Im in the faction that finds it unacceptable to coerce the Paladin to be Lawful Good only, and finds it problematic to mechanically enforce conduct that really depends on situational narratives.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>The compromise here develops from comments from the “rival” faction who require the Paladin to be Lawful Good. I have to say, I myself can live with such or similar suggestions, and I wonder if this solution might work for others as well.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Create a “Knight” class.</p><p> </p><p>This Knight is a Divine warrior archetype, dedicated to some Ideal (whatever this Ideal might be), and propagating this ideal by means of fearlessness, relentlessness, discipline, and glory (fame whether loved or feared). This is the Knight in Shining Armor - whether Lancelot or the Black Knight - or even the Green Knight. These Knights are deadly warriors who champion their respective Ideal while radiating the aura of the celestial-or-infernal forces of their Ideal.</p><p> </p><p>The Knight is “Shining”, seemingly impervious, unable to tarnish or daunt. The Knight enjoys extraordinary defenses (and optimizes well with the Human race that already enjoys +1 to all defenses). They “Sense Wrongness”, mysteriously knowing when their Ideal comes under threat. When they identify the threat, they fearlessly and relentlesslessly - and seemingly invincincibly - close in on their target to destroy their target.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Then create a “Paladin” theme.</p><p> </p><p>The creation of a Paladin theme that explicitly supports Lawful Good flavor, allows the Lawful-Good Paladin faction to own the name “Paladin”. On the other hand, they can still share the class itself under the name “Knight”.</p><p> </p><p>The flavor of this theme describes Lawful Good, altruistically self-identifying with society as a whole. The Paladin champions the upstanding or downtrodden members of the society.</p><p> </p><p>A sidebar, window, or box, supplies a detailed example of how the DM and player may wish to implement the alignment system in the context of the Paladin theme, especially the Knightly Code of Honor. For example, the DM may grant the Paladin character an “Advantage” when the player succeeds in living upto the Code of Honor in a particularly difficult encounter. Or oppositely, the DM may inflict a “Disadvantage” if the player shirks the Code under duress.</p><p> </p><p>The Paladin theme, grants mechanical benefits that synergize well with Lawful Good flavor (access to feats, maybe even the ability to swap certain features for free). Such features can include Laying Hands, perhaps Turn creatures known for evil or chaos, and so on. Mechanics to support the “defender role” can also be available to enhance the ability of the Paladin to function as a bodyguard for vulnerable members of the society.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>“Paladin Knight”</p><p> </p><p>The Paladin theme explicitly synergizes with the Knight class. However it is also possible to build a different kind of Knight. Or oppositely, it is even possible to build a different kind of Paladin, perhaps even a Paladin Wizard, to exemplify the flavor of a Code of Lawful Good.</p><p> </p><p>The goal of these rules is for the player to build a “Paladin” “Knight” in a self-evident, convenient, explicit, quick, easy, readymade way in minutes - that fit together seemlessly. Meanwhile, players who want alternative options can still customize the Paladin andor Knight to personalize these options for their character concept.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Haldrik, post: 5916031, member: 6694221"] The Paladin encompasses - and in some ways personifies - deep disagreements about the definition of D&D. • There are those who insist on enforcing alignments - and even exclusively one alignment only: Lawful Good. • There are those who insist on alignments being personal roleplay choices (similar to picking a gender) without any mechanical restrictions - and many insist alignment as a system cease to exist. Notably, both of these factions are roughly equal in number. Both are passionate and entrench within various official traditions. D&D Next has little choice but come up with a solution that most players can live with. Personally, I am in the faction that is skeptical about the utility of alignments. I like the Altruistic (Good) versus Predatory (Evil) trope, and the Societal (Lawful) versus the Individual (Chaos) trope. However, I philosophically oppose coercive rules for these. (Coercing Good is the opposite of Good.) Moreover I will not play a game whose rules mechanically punish players who violate arbitrary alignment definitions - definitions that often prove nonsensical in too many situations. (Moreover, my characters, including Clerics, have never worshiped deities. Thus dedication to one of the gods is a nonstarter.) So, Im in the faction that finds it unacceptable to coerce the Paladin to be Lawful Good only, and finds it problematic to mechanically enforce conduct that really depends on situational narratives. The compromise here develops from comments from the “rival” faction who require the Paladin to be Lawful Good. I have to say, I myself can live with such or similar suggestions, and I wonder if this solution might work for others as well. Create a “Knight” class. This Knight is a Divine warrior archetype, dedicated to some Ideal (whatever this Ideal might be), and propagating this ideal by means of fearlessness, relentlessness, discipline, and glory (fame whether loved or feared). This is the Knight in Shining Armor - whether Lancelot or the Black Knight - or even the Green Knight. These Knights are deadly warriors who champion their respective Ideal while radiating the aura of the celestial-or-infernal forces of their Ideal. The Knight is “Shining”, seemingly impervious, unable to tarnish or daunt. The Knight enjoys extraordinary defenses (and optimizes well with the Human race that already enjoys +1 to all defenses). They “Sense Wrongness”, mysteriously knowing when their Ideal comes under threat. When they identify the threat, they fearlessly and relentlesslessly - and seemingly invincincibly - close in on their target to destroy their target. Then create a “Paladin” theme. The creation of a Paladin theme that explicitly supports Lawful Good flavor, allows the Lawful-Good Paladin faction to own the name “Paladin”. On the other hand, they can still share the class itself under the name “Knight”. The flavor of this theme describes Lawful Good, altruistically self-identifying with society as a whole. The Paladin champions the upstanding or downtrodden members of the society. A sidebar, window, or box, supplies a detailed example of how the DM and player may wish to implement the alignment system in the context of the Paladin theme, especially the Knightly Code of Honor. For example, the DM may grant the Paladin character an “Advantage” when the player succeeds in living upto the Code of Honor in a particularly difficult encounter. Or oppositely, the DM may inflict a “Disadvantage” if the player shirks the Code under duress. The Paladin theme, grants mechanical benefits that synergize well with Lawful Good flavor (access to feats, maybe even the ability to swap certain features for free). Such features can include Laying Hands, perhaps Turn creatures known for evil or chaos, and so on. Mechanics to support the “defender role” can also be available to enhance the ability of the Paladin to function as a bodyguard for vulnerable members of the society. “Paladin Knight” The Paladin theme explicitly synergizes with the Knight class. However it is also possible to build a different kind of Knight. Or oppositely, it is even possible to build a different kind of Paladin, perhaps even a Paladin Wizard, to exemplify the flavor of a Code of Lawful Good. The goal of these rules is for the player to build a “Paladin” “Knight” in a self-evident, convenient, explicit, quick, easy, readymade way in minutes - that fit together seemlessly. Meanwhile, players who want alternative options can still customize the Paladin andor Knight to personalize these options for their character concept. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
A Chivalrous Compromise for Paladin
Top