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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kealios" data-source="post: 2567506" data-attributes="member: 20461">I think that's a good idea, and likely better than the one I had proposed.  Actually, it makes alot of sense, as it still requires the initial investment of time, but doesnt unduly make the learning of skills prohibitive.I currently do not require training for leveling and feats.  This skill idea is for a future campaign of mine, as I dont like springing new things on my players unexpectedly.  I have perceived some issues with skills currently, and am looking for a solution.Downtime is not common, but it happens.  This would encourage downtime, certainly, but I feel that there is a lot of downtime in most games that isnt accounted for (ie travel for 8 hours, camp/hang out for 8 hours, sleep for 8 hours, etc).  Sure, there is no mechanic in the game to account for this "extra" down time, but there really isnt a mechanic to deal with this skill issue either <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />My players get a really good amount of xp per game month, I believe.  Per-session isnt always the highest, but one or two good encounters here and there really bumps up the overall advancement.  The game has taken place from roughly October to February so far (5 months-ish), and the players have gone up from 5th to 13th on average.  Thats not quite but almost 2 levels per month.  And yes, some of the time they have spent would be applicable in gaining skills in this method.  Other skills, especially ones not used heavily in the game, would not be available as readily.</blockquote>Why do you think it will make skills "worth" more?Will your players enjoy this system?Will it cause more/less hassle in your gaming group?[/QUOTE]Skills would be worth more to the players under this system because they had to "work" for them.  Gaining a level and erasing one number to put in another wouldnt be as rewarding as knowing you passed a difficult learning check to advance something you really wanted.Do I think the players would like this system?  Likely not.  I think they'd be game for it, because I have a great set of players, but there would be some chaffing.  And the hassle would increase, certainly.However, sometimes its not what the players want (although without them, there would be no game!), but what the DM feels is needed to balance the perception of brokenness in any given campaign.Since starting this thread, I have done some browsing on this website and on others, and have really worked at making a list of what Knowledge skills can and cannot do.  They seem to be my bane the most, as I have already discarded the Diplomacy skill RAW and use the one from the link above.  I now have a better understanding of ways to increase the DC of knowledge skills in a legitimate manner, and have somewhat come to terms with the fact that a player who sinks so many skillpoints into one skill really DOES want to know everything about everything <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />  I am hoping by my system, however, to incourage diversity and not have excessively-high skill checks making my life as a DM so difficult *heh*I dont have a problem with players being good at what they want to do.  I have a problem with the DC RAW because after level 10, it becomes exceedingly difficult to challenge players because their skill checks simply let them dance around obstacles.For instance:My cleric/wizard Theurgist PC has a +26 on his Know (arcana) and (religion).  He is level 16, so is pretty near the top himself...but I cant fool him with new monsters very often, because he rolls his d20, gets a 35+ on most rolls (46 max...ouch), and says something like, "Well, I probably knew this monster's forefathers at one point!"  So...the new monster that I spent the previous two evenings making has some of its mystery removed because it happened to be an undead.Also...the players are fighting a cult who claim that Pelor has a dual nature, one good and one bad.  This player joined my campagin a few months after it had started, and with well-made Knowledge checks (combined with his personal knowledge which he only applied if he could make the appropriate Know checks, thankfully), had the case 90% broken open within the first month.  Now they are moving about the continent removing the cult, which is good, but the player continually complains that even with his ungodly skills, he still cant know more than he does.  Basically, I dont want to give the whole storyline away, and the major NPC has still not been revealed to them, and I dont want him to be uncovered yet, so yea, maybe in that sense I have limited him, but I dont want skillchecks spoiling the fun.This is why I have issues with DC's.  Skill DCs like knowledge and diplomacy RAW, and poison DC's cause theyre increadibly low and useless, are my issues, and I am interested in changing their impact on the game.  I dont have the answers yet, but I feel that I am close.Thanks all,keep em coming[/QUOTE]

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