A Couple of Questions

[SimonCarryer]

These two problems came up in two seperate games I was in:

1: A character is hit with a volley of crossbow bolts, firing barbed bolts. He's a high level character, so he's fine, but it happens that he's running close to his encumbrance limit. The combined weight of all the bolts that hit him is enough to take him over his encumbrance level. Does the character collapse under the weight of the bolts? Does this strike anyone as a bit odd?

2: The PC's watch a performance by an orator in the town square. The guy is trying to convince the townsfolk to rebel against the local lord. The guy does outstandingly well, rolling 35 odd on his Performance skill. The PCs, who are agents of the lord, conferr:

PC Fighter: "Hey Rogue, you reckon you can nail him with an arrow from here? It'd nip this problem in the bud"

PC Rogue: "Yeah, I could hit him, right in the back too, but you heard how well he spoke, anyone who can speak that well is going to take more than a couple of arrows to take down. We'd just make him angry"

Is this metagaming?

 

[MerakSpielman]

1: DM fiat. I don't think there are rules saying that being hit by ammo increases your load, but when the ammo specifically says it stays in your body until removed...

2: Yes, it is metagaming. But the PCs shouldn't know how well the NPC rolled, or what his bonus was. The DM should have just described the speach as "incredibly movinga and persuasive."

 

[Beholder Bob]

#1: HP in DnD is abstract - but if a high level character is 'struck' by a bunch of bolts and is not severly injured, assume the bolts are not stuck in him, but rather glanced him, used up some of his combat luck/grace/skill esoteric units, etc. A 20th lv fighter who is struck by a bolt for 3 HP does not have a bolt sticking out of his chest, he is at worst suffering a tiny nick from a near miss. I suppose the GM could claim that a % of bolts are stuck in his shield, tangled in clothing or armor, but I do not calculate/recalculate encumb in combat unless STR is lowered/raised.

#2: Yes, w/out question.

BB

 

[SimonCarryer]

1: How do I describe a human being able to survive more arrows than he can carry sticking out of his body?

2: How long do you have to live in a world where people who are very skilled are also increadibly tough before you cotton on?

 

[Beholder Bob]

2: How long do you have to live in a world where people who are very skilled are also increadibly tough before you cotton on?

A 2nd level bard, 5 ranks in diplo, +4 from cha, +2 synergy, +2 from feat, +3 from feat has a +16 roll, or can get a 36. Not counting circumstance bonuses, spells, and items that can modify this skill. This does not make him an uber person. Skills should not be taken to indicate level - a specialized expert can achieve very good rolls easily. Spells cast or visually displaying combat prowess would indicate a level of toughness though.

BB

 

[SimonCarryer]

A second level bard is also very likely to survive an arrow shot, even a plus 1d6 sneak attack.

While it's true you can get quite high bonuses on some skill rolls, it still seems to me that it'd be a pretty slow character who couldn't spot someone high level after a little while, by observing how regularly they succeed, or the range of things they excell at.

On a related note:

Village Head Man: "Alas, our village is beset by a terrible Owlbear! Our livestock is ravaged and our children in fear!"

PCs: "Fear not, noble peasant, we shall vanquish this beast!"

Village Head Man: "Are you kidding? Me and my freinds have been farming for twenty years, and Alric here is the best blacksmith this side of the Dark Mountains! We're fine on our own thanks."


You may have guessed by now that I'm a bit cynical about d20. It's just not my kettle of fish I guess.

 

[JimAde]

Not to start an argument, but: Why are you here on a d20 board?

I won't use the "T" word, since you're being civil and polite, but going to a d20-centric board and saying "d20 is no good" is pushing it.

d20 is not a realistic system. It's a fun, cinematic system. GURPS might be more to your liking, or HERO. Both excellent systems that allow highly skilled characters who aren't any good at combat (among other character types).

 

[kenobi65]

#1 -- As Beholder Bob has already pointed out, when a high-level PC takes hit point damage, those may not represent full-on hits, so much as near-misses that tire the PC out. I've seen house rules that state that a PC's 1st-level hit points represent true "wounds", and the hit points at levels 2 and above represent those "near misses". (If you really want to go down this path, consider using the alternate Vitality Point / Wound Point system in Unearthed Arcana, Star Wars, Spycraft, etc.)

In any case, if the character is *that* close to total encumbrance, what do you do when he eats a meal? Drinks a mug of ale? Would barfing, or relieving himself, thus serve to un-encumber himself? This whole line of thought just strikes me as silly.

#2 -- Yes, this is a pretty clear metagaming example, IMO.

And, besides, a bowshot with an extra 1d6 sneak attack sure can take down a low-level bard. Who knows, maybe that bard has a Con penalty, at which point his hit points are 2d6 minus something. (See, that's even more metagaming thinking...)

Yes, I suppose, it's fair for PCs to kind of reason out that skilled characters are tougher. But, there are going to be exceptions to that rule. At best, it's a pretty good correlation, not an absolute. And, besides, there's always the wild-card of magic in there, which can help real wusses do things you wouldn't expect.

I think you guys are overthinking some of these things.

 

[SimonCarryer]

Sorry, I wasn't saying d20 is no good. It's a great system that has brought me much fun and enjoyment.

My problems with it are:

1: Pretending it's not about superheroes. It is. It's much easier to run a game when you accept that.

2: The new thinking that's crept in about NPC Classes, and everyone having levels. The world doesn't work when everyone is a superhero.

That said, I wouldn't change it, I'd just run a setting that embraces these facts. If I want to do domething different, I'll run that (Like Savage Worlds). With that in mind, I'm going to run off to different forum.

 

[Scharlata]

[...] With that in mind, I'm going to run off to different forum.

Hi @ JimAde

We were VERY diplomatic, weren't we? :\

Scharlata