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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 9821920" data-attributes="member: 6802951">The "Martials/Casters divide often tended to use Fighters vs. Wizards since both were representative of each archetype in 2014. They had equivalent skills (until 2024 let fighters burn second winds to boost them and Wizards got Expertise) and both had subclasses which granted some of the capability of the other to a lesser (Eldritch Knight), or greater (Bladesinger) extent.2024 has made things somewhat fuzzier: Grappling is less effective as a strategy, but weapon mastery more than makes up for it on the martial side. In 2014 Casters were demonstrably better with skills than non-rogue martials, but now Martials have the edge in most ability checks, if they're willing to spend their resources and the casters aren't.Direct comparison between the martials and casters generally required a champion of each to be selected to butt heads, and this was usually the fighter and the wizard representing their respective sides. In 2024 I think that it has been solidly established that most fighters perform better than most wizards at low levels, with the difference reducing as the game reaches the usual end point at Level 11, and as long as only single target damage is being compared. Trying to compare performance in other aspects of the game is complicated by being harder to reduce down to a simple comparable number on each side. Unfortunately it is in the aspects of the game other than DPR that the martial/caster divide lies.   . . . or the fighter player wants to play a character concept all about martial skill rather than magic and is unaware of, or just willing to take the hit to mechanical effectiveness and versatility, to allow them to play it. Its a popular concept: Fighters were a popular choice even in 3e, where I don't think that many people would argue that they weren't overshadowed.</blockquote>

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