Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
A critique and review of the Fighter class
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8669415" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>LOL. First "superior technique" into skills gives up a <em>lot</em> of combat power. Second it's effectively equivalent to expertise but can only be used once per short rest. That said there's some cute synergy you're showing between Superior Technique, Martial Adept, and the Great Weapon Master feat because (as with spell slots) you can spend it both into and out of combat in different ways. But you <em>need</em> the feat for that.</p><p></p><p>I think there's some cherry picking going on here; Banneret for the free expertise, Vuman to be able to take an extra fighter feat and 13th level for the +5 proficiency here.</p><p></p><p>So let's look at that build. In specific from levels 1-5 you are a standard "commoner" fighter - and even behind your average fighter because you've chosen to put what would often be racial background abilities into Great Weapon Master. (That's assuming you've started with Precision Strike from your fighting style; without it you're likely to not get that much mileage out of GWM).</p><p></p><p>Your social abilities come on line at levels 6, 7, and 8. <em>But</em>. (And there's always a but). Because you chose Skill Expert at 6 and Martial Adept at 8 your STR moved to a +4 bonus (alongside most fighters) at level 4 and only moved to +5 at level <em>12</em>. You've an exceptionally soggy tier 2 combat growth there to the point that the only meaningful differences between your fighter in combat at level 5 and level 9 is a lot of hit points, +1 proficiency bonus, a single use per day of indomitable, and a battlemaster dice.</p><p></p><p>So playing through this build is going to feel bad. Levels 1-5 you're a commoner out of combat and levels 6-9 (6-10 in the wrong party) you gain almost nothing <em>in</em> combat.</p><p></p><p>And having burned all that you're still bottom tier in exploration and your numbers in the social tier are not <em>nothing</em>. But all they are is bonuses on a d20, leaving you fundamentally unable to change the situation. Yes, those are some nice numbers - but you're mid-tier at best. </p><p></p><p>Essentially all you are out of combat is effectively the player of a commoner with loaded dice. It doesn't allow you to do anything anyone else can't - just gives you a good chance of success.</p><p></p><p>Lol, nope. A <em>baseline</em> bard at that level should have a Persuasion of +10. Give the bard the Enhance Ability spell (a good general buff that doesn't have to be used socially) as a second level spell and it's in striking distance of your Persuasion thanks to Advantage. Add in an illusion spell (I don't care which one) and the bard is running rings round you. The only bards you're actually running rings round are those that have spent precisely no spells supporting their social abilities.</p><p></p><p>That and two dollars will get you a coffee. Flight's been online since level 5. Water walk and water breathing have been <em>rituals</em> since level 5. And it's not hard to get a swim speed (or for that matter a climb speed) - which will leave your ability to swim almost floating idly. </p><p></p><p>And as pointed out getting there was a chore for him.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8669415, member: 87792"] LOL. First "superior technique" into skills gives up a [I]lot[/I] of combat power. Second it's effectively equivalent to expertise but can only be used once per short rest. That said there's some cute synergy you're showing between Superior Technique, Martial Adept, and the Great Weapon Master feat because (as with spell slots) you can spend it both into and out of combat in different ways. But you [I]need[/I] the feat for that. I think there's some cherry picking going on here; Banneret for the free expertise, Vuman to be able to take an extra fighter feat and 13th level for the +5 proficiency here. So let's look at that build. In specific from levels 1-5 you are a standard "commoner" fighter - and even behind your average fighter because you've chosen to put what would often be racial background abilities into Great Weapon Master. (That's assuming you've started with Precision Strike from your fighting style; without it you're likely to not get that much mileage out of GWM). Your social abilities come on line at levels 6, 7, and 8. [I]But[/I]. (And there's always a but). Because you chose Skill Expert at 6 and Martial Adept at 8 your STR moved to a +4 bonus (alongside most fighters) at level 4 and only moved to +5 at level [I]12[/I]. You've an exceptionally soggy tier 2 combat growth there to the point that the only meaningful differences between your fighter in combat at level 5 and level 9 is a lot of hit points, +1 proficiency bonus, a single use per day of indomitable, and a battlemaster dice. So playing through this build is going to feel bad. Levels 1-5 you're a commoner out of combat and levels 6-9 (6-10 in the wrong party) you gain almost nothing [I]in[/I] combat. And having burned all that you're still bottom tier in exploration and your numbers in the social tier are not [I]nothing[/I]. But all they are is bonuses on a d20, leaving you fundamentally unable to change the situation. Yes, those are some nice numbers - but you're mid-tier at best. Essentially all you are out of combat is effectively the player of a commoner with loaded dice. It doesn't allow you to do anything anyone else can't - just gives you a good chance of success. Lol, nope. A [I]baseline[/I] bard at that level should have a Persuasion of +10. Give the bard the Enhance Ability spell (a good general buff that doesn't have to be used socially) as a second level spell and it's in striking distance of your Persuasion thanks to Advantage. Add in an illusion spell (I don't care which one) and the bard is running rings round you. The only bards you're actually running rings round are those that have spent precisely no spells supporting their social abilities. That and two dollars will get you a coffee. Flight's been online since level 5. Water walk and water breathing have been [I]rituals[/I] since level 5. And it's not hard to get a swim speed (or for that matter a climb speed) - which will leave your ability to swim almost floating idly. And as pointed out getting there was a chore for him. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
A critique and review of the Fighter class
Top