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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8669629" data-attributes="member: 87792">Indeed. But this is a world away from what you claimed your build could do by dominating the social pillar. And a bard, sorcerer, or warlock who valued Tongues could cast it on themselves.Yes - but they won't remain in the top tier as you level up because once again no magic or support abilities. That's acceptable at 4th level but won't remain so.Your bog standard warlock or sorcerer will be rolling +6 having just spent a skill and nothing else. It's only the +1d8 that makes it even vaguely impressive.It's hard to outclass him at his one trick. So he's not definitively outclassed. But by the same token there are plenty of social builds he isn't outclassing in the social tier. For example the warlock with training in persuasion and deception and who has the Mask of Many Faces invocation (as well as Agonizing Blast) to change what they look like and a flying invisible familiar that can shapechange into an easily overlooked animal when they want to spy on people.And I'm much more interested in what the warlock will do than in seeing how big a number the social one trick pony will throw.Finally your focus on "how high a persuasion can I get as that will let me dominate the social pillar" is roughly equivalent to looking at raw stealth numbers. Which again battle master maneuvers and feat investment will give you. But what they won't give you is things like Cunning Action, Pass Without Trace, Invisibility, a flying scout whose eyes you can see through, and more. It's a trick and a good one but it's not the entire pillar.</blockquote>

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