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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8670410" data-attributes="member: 93670">That bolded bit is dependent on the qualifying statement before it that you still aren't expanding upon.   Even combined it's a fairly meaningless statement or one worded in a way that was intended to convey some meaning other than the words suggest.  It does not seem that anyone is calling for fighter to be nerfed in this thread.  People are calling to ignore where fighter excels & make them excel in the niche of other classes however so we need to consider it in that light until you expand upon anything at all. Your  comment about fighters not being "that" much better in combat & the bolded adoration footnote  should either be reworded to convey the intended meaning or you should provide details about how they are not "that" much better in combat.  Without the qualifying statement about fighters not being "that" much better the bolded bit doesn't say much of anything.If your anecdote works as you say rather than just mere lack of focused observing it no doubt means that the fighter & warlock you noted are not pushing for a short rest every fight or two or someone is using fiat if not acting as fun police to shut down their attempts.   We could compare detail free anecdotes all day but your anecdote does not actually provide any detail to support it beyond a group class array & level range while asking for details.  This sort of total lack of support beyond mere undetailed anecdote accompanied by demands for proof makes these threads tiresome rather than interesting discussions on table variances & rules as written.  For once it does not seem like damage is in dispute but <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/spellcasters-and-balance-in-5e-a-poll.680650/post-8303342" target="_blank">here</a> is a simple breakdown just in case.  Really it comes down to a few factors<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In a well designed system where hit chance and rate of attack vary  the option of making more attacks carries the advantage of being hurt less by a miss & generally dealing less damage in aggregate to balance out the larger pain of a miss that goes with options that are all in on fewer bigger strikes unless the fewer bigger strikes carry meaningful nondamage riders like debuffs</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighting style benefits multiply across each attack making them more powerful for a character who makes more attacks, that's their relevance.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter deals more damage than cantrip users  due to the multiplicative impact of adding modifiers to each attack vrs generally  adding none to one attack or adding fewer of them to fewer attacks.   Yes there are cantrip users like dragon sorc that can add cha to the one blast they make from some cantrips like fighter can to every attack but a +1 weapon adds +1 to hit and damage while wands only add to tohit.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">[USER=6877472]@James Gasik[/USER] noted paladins also having fighting styles & the prior point about the multiplicative impact of extra attacks  weighs in here but Flamestrike's excellent <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/every-fight-a-nova-consequences-and-considerations.688998/post-8654661" target="_blank">recent breakdown </a>of how fighter pulls ahead & continues doing so as short rests are added.  That knife edge's  shift is critically important when you pile on how 5e's rules themselves are structured in a way to encourage & support save scumming level of 5MWD encounter>short rest>repeat that swings things dramatically in favor of the fighter here unless the party self restrains or the GM just straight up invokes fiat to say "you can't rest".  The shift occurs because paladin smites are long rest rather than short rest like action surge  & fighter extra attack 3+ is at will with multiplicative effect on mods.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">With fighter vrs casters comparisons this all is exacerbated by the overuse of concentration legendary resists magic & elemental & resist/immune along with good saves being fairly common as opposed to the low AC  that results from 5e's bounded accuracy</li> </ul>Watch what happens when the fighter warlock & sometimes (moon?)druid push for  a short rest every fight or two rather than stretching out their short rest resources & you will start seeing the results of those points above.</blockquote>

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