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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 8671044" data-attributes="member: 6802951">That is basically what I did for my Warlord/blade hack: Expand upon BM maneuvers for a full class in the same way that the Wizard class expands upon the spells of an Eldritch Knight.If you read my post and got "casters are basically on par with fighters" as the overall point for out of combat interactions, then you may have skipped a bit.Casters are basically on par with fighters before you factor in spells was the point I was making about non-combat interactions. Thats . . . a little different.Social interaction challenges are not limited to face to face, persuasion and insight checks, in which enchantment or detect thought etc spells might be usefully employed. Why are you talking to these people in the first place? Are you trying to get somewhere? Obtain information? Avoid combat?With a little creativity, there are lots of spells that can help with these. If you go to bed knowing roughly what your group intends to try to achieve the next day, and can adjust your spells, you can help even more.No one is reasonably complaining that any PC is pointless. Every PC has access to ability checks and every player can roleplay amongst the party to improve the rest of the group's overall enjoyment.But if that is all you get to do, and the other members of the group get to contribute more to the success of the party, then people can start feeling left out, or that you're not pulling your weight.Could you possibly point out where you're getting that sentiment from please? I thought that I have read all the posts in this thread, and most of the similar ones, and I do not think that I have seen many people suggest that fighters should be the optimal choice for something outside of combat at all. It is possible that people have, but I just have them on ignore so haven't seen it.I have been on both sides of this. I have played a utility wizard, OK in combat, but mostly contributing in other situations, and was actually asked to tone it down.  I was dominating most of the out of combat situations to the detriment of the fun of some of the other players simply because I was being so helpful and able to solve so many problems.I have since made a point of trying out some fighters particularly at higher levels, to see if the group was actually justified in asking me that, and found out that there was a huge disparity in my experience between the two classes.Now, it is entirely possible that my groups' playstyle (which does tend towards all three pillars fairly evenly rather than more combat) is just significantly different to the majority of other groups that our respective experiences just do not translate across.Again: why are you interacting with these people? What does your group want to achieve?No single spell is useful for everything. But when you're a caster, you don't have one single spell, you have several. And each extra spell you are able to cast is a class ability that may be applicable to the situation above and beyond your ability checks. If you roll a d4 and a d6 and pick the better roll ten times, are you likely to have higher numbers as often as if you just roll a d4 ten times?</blockquote>

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