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Message: <blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8672955" data-attributes="member: 6877472">Yes, and that was the reason to not dump Charisma as a Fighter.  Unfortunately, 1) not all campaigns got to 9th level, 2) "building a keep" was a heinous expense not every 9th level Fighter could afford, and 3) not all campaigns were about base building and turning the PC's into lords and rulers- a lot of people just wanted to keep adventuring, which is why Leadership was made into a Feat in 3e...and then, when people kept finding ways to abuse Leadership, a lot of DM's stopped allowing it entirely, so now that entire aspect of the game is now up to the DM if they want to allow it.And the Fighter didn't really get anything to replace losing their "best saves" and "best deal on followers" abilities, which were pretty big parts of the class in high level play.</blockquote>