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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8673615" data-attributes="member: 93670">Yea,I hjave the same problem & notice it in players when I'm GM'ing.   I played a scribes wizard through frostmaiden & one of the other players (rune fighter or whatever it is) kept begging for haste or enlarge.  I kept telling him it was there & it might go out if concentration & the one minute duration fit the situation. At some point the rogue retired to come in with a sorcerer saying he picked twin spell enlarge (or haste I forget) with the same "I want wait  to see them both going on someone".  We finished that at 11 or 12 in a boring  snooze of a "fight" plinking at  a helpless tarrasque  & never once cast either spell.  Playing the kind of force multiplier "god wizard"* type role in 5e is supremely unrewarding* "god wizard" was a 3.5 wizard  buildstyle that focused on force multiplier buff/debuff/control spells that was fairly useless in a fight on their own because it focused on making the rest of the party amazing & defanging whatever the party was fighting.  Since they were such an effective force multiplier it didn't matter if they missed 18/20 rounds they tried shooting their crossbow/sling.They can't "haste" the party because haste is a one minute concentration spell.  That kind of "wizards can do [something they literally can't do] so fighters need to be improved" is shockingly common in these discussions.  Banish & slow are examples of why they generally won't haste the fighter either, fighters already do so much damage that one extra attack from one player is not going to matter much & won't last long enough to matter.On paper there are certainly a few spells that become "a very good option" for buffing in a whiteroom, but those spells are almost universally some combination of <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Short lived</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Single target</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">concentration</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">not really needed to begin with so rather shrugworthy until you start getting into Eve online/WoW raidwide dps log levels of crunch that really need campaign length collections of results from a spell that might only last a fight or two.</li> </ul>In the past a high level wizard could "haste the party" & did so in forms like casting haste of these two players using two spell slots On paper it might look like the <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/haste" target="_blank">5e haste</a> is just as good if not better than the <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm" target="_blank">3.5 haste</a>:[spoiler="but that very much is not the case"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The 3.5 one gave +1 to ac & advantage on dex saves plus an extra attack and some system specific benefits that no longer apply thanks to 5e's simplifications plus an extra 30 feet of move speed</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The 5e one gives +2 to ac & dex saves plus an attack or some options like disengage that are unlikely to get used</li> </ul>[/spoiler]From that alone it might look like the 5e haste is even better, but the devil is in the details.  The unstated system specific part that simplified away is that the 3.5 attack it granted was made using full BaB plus any mods while in 5e all attacks are made like that. For a fighter in 5e haste grantsa +1 attack on two or three attacks, useful sure but not the same.  In 3.x the second/third/fourth attacks were made at -5/-10/-15 on the tohit roll so you got one that was pretty much certain plus maybe a couple others that were pure chance.When 5e did away with the penalty on iterative attacks wotc again nerfed fighter by inflating monster hp to compensate for the fact that basically any attack is certain to hit.  That nerf also hits haste because the extra attack chips a smaller relative slice of the monster's HP pool & is just an attack chipping away at a giant sack of hp rather than a very special probably certain to land attack that makes a big dent.</blockquote>

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