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A Crunchy Take On Conan From Modiphius Entertainment
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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 7741358"><p>I seem to have pressed some kind of button for you, unless you respond with such hostility and aggression to everyone on the Internet. I don't know if you've got some kind of financial stake in the game, or you are friends with the publishers, or what, but clearly for you this isn't just a philosophical debate about game design.</p><p></p><p>Nevertheless, although it doesn't seem you either want to or are able to understand my point (or both), I will proceed under the assumption that I am just communicating poorly and try to clarify:</p><p></p><p></p><p>My point, and my only point, is that the mechanics seem to be generic mechanics re-fluffed for the setting, rather than being mechanics intentionally designed to reinforce the unique aspects of the fiction.</p><p></p><p>The specific things I mentioned...the Civilization/Barbarism dichotomy, or the weapon thing...are simply examples that I made up while typing my first post to illustrate the point. Those aren't specific requests from a wish list I have. Maybe they're terrible ideas. <em>Probably</em> they are terrible ideas. I don't really want to argue that. But I don't see <em>better</em> ideas in the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, you have demonstrated that it is easy to take a general idea that you hate (or, more accurately, an idea that you hate in this context because it implies criticism of something in which you are vested) and fill in details that make the idea seem ridiculous. Congratulations. Low bar, but congratulations anyway.</p><p></p><p>Let me know if you ever become genuinely interested in the idea, instead of just trying to prove it's bad, and we can discuss the mechanics of how it might work.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh gosh. Thanks. /blush. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are in fact close to the Modiphius crew then I am beginning to understand why no novel, imaginative mechanics made it into the game. You seem to be quite sure that there are aspects of RPGs which have no room for innovation, as you are latching onto only one possible implementation of the idea.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A similar argument might be made if an RPG made killing monsters a "Misdeed" that led the accrual of penalty points. Keeping your preferred weapon (however unrealistic) is a sacrosanct part of RPGs, just like killing bad guys is.</p><p></p><p>Yet this is exactly what The One Ring does (in some cases). Not by actually preventing players from killing, but by creating incentives to think in a new way about their choices. And, sure enough, veterans of other RPGs frequently argue the point on their forums. "What?!?! Of COURSE I can kill orcs with impunity!" But if you actually play the game as intended, the mechanic leads to behaviors that simultaneously both un-D&Dish and very Tolkienesque.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So here you just completely missed my point. Re-reading what I wrote I can't quite see how, unless you weren't really even trying, but I'll take that at face value and try again:</p><p></p><p>A good GM/DM can evoke a mood or setting regardless of the game system, especially if they are expert in that system. So I was trying to say that I have no doubt you run a great Conan game, and could probably do so <em>even with GURPS</em> given that you are so familiar with the fiction. It was a <em>compliment</em>. </p><p></p><p>But that's not the same thing as having a game system which itself is designed to reinforce/support the fiction.</p><p></p><p>I realize that the concept itself might be alien. Before TOR it wasn't anything I had even considered, and if I had I probably would have been where you are, thinking that it's nonsensical. I would have thought, for example, that to adventure in Middle-earth would simply require the right races, classes, abilities, etc. ICE did an amazing job in many ways with MERP, but the underlying rules & mechanics were simply an extensively and well-researched re-fluff of their house system. They tried to do justice to the richness of the setting with sheer volume and variety of character choices, but apparently never asked themselves if their beloved "Law" system was actually appropriate to the tone and flavor of Tolkien's writings. (Appropriate parallel, no?) </p><p></p><p>I've come to the conclusion since that the actual mechanics, not simply the labels attached to the mechanics, can both evoke and inhibit the feel of a particular setting. And that if you <em>are</em> trying to get a setting right, simplicity...with a focus on the essential elements...rather than complexity and exhaustiveness...is probably the right way to go about it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>...or perhaps one you don't seem to understand. Yet. (Growth mindset!) </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Uhh...isn't that what I did? I expressed what I was hoping for that I didn't find in the rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yay! The badwrongfun argument!</p><p></p><p>In any event, those aren't "the two specific tropes I find essential". Again, I was trying to offer illustrative examples of how the unique aspects of a fiction can be incorporated into the fabric of rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yup. You don't get it. Not surprising. Few do.</p><p></p><p>Game on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 7741358"] I seem to have pressed some kind of button for you, unless you respond with such hostility and aggression to everyone on the Internet. I don't know if you've got some kind of financial stake in the game, or you are friends with the publishers, or what, but clearly for you this isn't just a philosophical debate about game design. Nevertheless, although it doesn't seem you either want to or are able to understand my point (or both), I will proceed under the assumption that I am just communicating poorly and try to clarify: My point, and my only point, is that the mechanics seem to be generic mechanics re-fluffed for the setting, rather than being mechanics intentionally designed to reinforce the unique aspects of the fiction. The specific things I mentioned...the Civilization/Barbarism dichotomy, or the weapon thing...are simply examples that I made up while typing my first post to illustrate the point. Those aren't specific requests from a wish list I have. Maybe they're terrible ideas. [I]Probably[/I] they are terrible ideas. I don't really want to argue that. But I don't see [I]better[/I] ideas in the game. Yes, you have demonstrated that it is easy to take a general idea that you hate (or, more accurately, an idea that you hate in this context because it implies criticism of something in which you are vested) and fill in details that make the idea seem ridiculous. Congratulations. Low bar, but congratulations anyway. Let me know if you ever become genuinely interested in the idea, instead of just trying to prove it's bad, and we can discuss the mechanics of how it might work. Oh gosh. Thanks. /blush. If you are in fact close to the Modiphius crew then I am beginning to understand why no novel, imaginative mechanics made it into the game. You seem to be quite sure that there are aspects of RPGs which have no room for innovation, as you are latching onto only one possible implementation of the idea. A similar argument might be made if an RPG made killing monsters a "Misdeed" that led the accrual of penalty points. Keeping your preferred weapon (however unrealistic) is a sacrosanct part of RPGs, just like killing bad guys is. Yet this is exactly what The One Ring does (in some cases). Not by actually preventing players from killing, but by creating incentives to think in a new way about their choices. And, sure enough, veterans of other RPGs frequently argue the point on their forums. "What?!?! Of COURSE I can kill orcs with impunity!" But if you actually play the game as intended, the mechanic leads to behaviors that simultaneously both un-D&Dish and very Tolkienesque. So here you just completely missed my point. Re-reading what I wrote I can't quite see how, unless you weren't really even trying, but I'll take that at face value and try again: A good GM/DM can evoke a mood or setting regardless of the game system, especially if they are expert in that system. So I was trying to say that I have no doubt you run a great Conan game, and could probably do so [I]even with GURPS[/I] given that you are so familiar with the fiction. It was a [I]compliment[/I]. But that's not the same thing as having a game system which itself is designed to reinforce/support the fiction. I realize that the concept itself might be alien. Before TOR it wasn't anything I had even considered, and if I had I probably would have been where you are, thinking that it's nonsensical. I would have thought, for example, that to adventure in Middle-earth would simply require the right races, classes, abilities, etc. ICE did an amazing job in many ways with MERP, but the underlying rules & mechanics were simply an extensively and well-researched re-fluff of their house system. They tried to do justice to the richness of the setting with sheer volume and variety of character choices, but apparently never asked themselves if their beloved "Law" system was actually appropriate to the tone and flavor of Tolkien's writings. (Appropriate parallel, no?) I've come to the conclusion since that the actual mechanics, not simply the labels attached to the mechanics, can both evoke and inhibit the feel of a particular setting. And that if you [I]are[/I] trying to get a setting right, simplicity...with a focus on the essential elements...rather than complexity and exhaustiveness...is probably the right way to go about it. ...or perhaps one you don't seem to understand. Yet. (Growth mindset!) Uhh...isn't that what I did? I expressed what I was hoping for that I didn't find in the rules. Yay! The badwrongfun argument! In any event, those aren't "the two specific tropes I find essential". Again, I was trying to offer illustrative examples of how the unique aspects of a fiction can be incorporated into the fabric of rules. Yup. You don't get it. Not surprising. Few do. Game on. [/QUOTE]
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