A different good save progression for multiclass characters

[johnsemlak]

I have toyed with a house rule where I modify the progression of good saving throws for characters who take on a second or later class. Basically, I want to change the level 1 bonus to +1. It would look something like this:

Level 1 +1
Level 2 +2
Level 3 +3
Level 4 +4

thereafter as normal.

The idea is to give slightly less incentive to take a level of a class just ot boost saving throws.

Has anyone ever thought of this, and would it cause any problems?

 

[Tessarael]

Sounds fine. Dipping for one level to improve saves only works with BAB 1/1 classes (otherwise your resulting BAB is crap), but yes it is a problem.

Unearthed Arcana has a variant for handling multi-classed saves and multi-classed BABs fractionally.

I would be more inclined to do something like this:
- Your first character level, you get the +2 in whatever saves
- Any other new classes you enter, you don't get the +2, you just get +1 save/2 levels if it is a good save, and poor saves as normal. That will really stop dipping for saves.

Just my thoughts ...

 

[Silveras]

Sounds fine. Dipping for one level to improve saves only works with BAB 1/1 classes (otherwise your resulting BAB is crap), but yes it is a problem.

Unearthed Arcana has a variant for handling multi-classed saves and multi-classed BABs fractionally.

I would be more inclined to do something like this:
- Your first character level, you get the +2 in whatever saves
- Any other new classes you enter, you don't get the +2, you just get +1 save/2 levels if it is a good save, and poor saves as normal. That will really stop dipping for saves.

Just my thoughts ...

I like the fractional BAB and Save Progressions, and have adopted them for my campaign world.

Under that variant, Good saves are 2 + 1/2 class levels. Poor saves are +1/3 class levels.

I am toying with the following:

The +2 bonus on good saves is only available to a character once per save for "base classes" and once per save for "prestige classes".

 

[johnsemlak]

I am toying with the following:

The +2 bonus on good saves is only available to a character once per save for "base classes" and once per save for "prestige classes".

? I don't follow.

 

[Silveras]

? I don't follow.

Good saves are 1/2 class level + 2.

To avoid 1-level dipping for a quick save boost, I am considering saying that the fractional bonuses apply to all classes, but the +2 on a given save can only come once from non-Prestige classes and once from Prestige classes.

Consider a Monk 3/Wizard 3 as an example
Under standard rules, the saves are:

              Fort        Ref     Will
Monk 3      +3         +3      +3
Wizard 3    +1         +1      +3

Total        +4         +4       +6

Under the fractional accounting in UA, they are (in play, round down):

              Fort        Ref     Will
Monk 3      +3.5      +3.5    +3.5
Wizard 3    +1         +1      +3.5

Total        +4.5      +4.5     +7

Because the Will save is good for both Wizards and Monks, that save seems a little high. Adding a level of Bard (Good Ref and Will) would make the standard saves +4/+6/+8 or the fractional ones +4.8, +6.5, +9.5.

If, on the other hand, you can only get the +2 boost once per saving throw type.. you get

              Fort        Ref     Will
Monk 3      +3.5      +3.5    +3.5
Wizard 3    +1         +1      +1.5

Total        +4.5      +4.5     +5

Add the Bard level, and they become +4.8, +5, +5.5

The Wizard's Good save is still a little better, but it is not so abusable by taking multiple classes to get the good save boosts on them all.

Part of the reasoning for this comes from watching someone build a 7th level "concept character" that had 1 level of Monk, 1 level of Bard, 3 levels of Cleric, and 2 levels of Dragon Disciple (IIRC), all classes chosen mostly for the saving throw bonuses.

 

[Crothian]

Is this really a problem for people ? I see so few people multi class anyway.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Has anyone ever thought of this, and would it cause any problems?

Been doing it that way for round-about 2 years. No problems, no regrets, although we did pick up on UA's fractional advancement for after 4th Level and for Low Saves.

 

[johnsemlak]

Is this really a problem for people ? I see so few people multi class anyway.

REally? happens all the time in games I've been in.

 

[Khaalis]

Personally I dont see a problem with the saves as they are. It sounds more like the DM (is that you?) needs to take more control over mutliclassing. Is this being done with PrC's or Base Classes? Are there any restrictions on picking up new classes or is it just magical - poof you have a new class? An in-game way to limit multiclassing is to use enforced training down-time. Also, are multiclass XP penalties being applied? There are ways to limit the 5 class characters short of re-writing the saving throw system...

Also keep in mind that the balance to that +2 is all those extra +0's in saves...

 

[Tessarael]

It's really a problem in any campaign where people multiclass a lot.

For example, I have a 19th level character: Rogue 4/Fighter 4/Spymaster 10/Wizard 1. His base saves are +8/+12/+11 ... a little high, because of +2 to Reflex saves from both Rogue and Spymaster, and +2 to Will saves from both Spymaster and Wizard.

There's another character in the campaign who is something like Fighter 4/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 2/Eldritch Knight 10, and there's similar problems - I think his Reflex save is only +5 at 20th level ...