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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5988171" data-attributes="member: 87792">No it didn't.  It was a huge difference - the fighter gaining multiple attacks set the fighter apart from every other class.  If you can't see that there is a vast difference between a mechanic that makes the fighter types special and a mechanic everyone gets and that one is tied to fighter level and the other to BAB, no wonder we disagree.But of course you couldn't be accurate in your claim.  You couldn't have said "The fighter and other highly skilled warriors get extra attacks for being a skilled high level warrior" because it would demonstrate that 3e was the outlier here, and 4e was in practice closer to the spirit of the older rules than 3e was.  The implementation was different but the spirit of the rules was the same, with 3e being the outlier.And I'm tired of people missing the very point of 4e rules and even 3e and AD&D rules (don't worry - Monte Cook missed the point of many AD&D rules when he designed 3.0) in an effort to criticise 4e on false pretenses.  If you want to be taken seriously by 4e fans, stick to the truth.1I realise that you can't see that 4e also has a lot of commonality, especially conceptually.  And that 3e's concepts are in many cases an outlier.  Take, for instance, how classes work.  And how different 3e multiclassing is from other forms.  Or the insistance in 3e that monsters use PC rules. 4e was an attempt to reimplement the heroic strand of D&D (there's always been a war between the heroic and the high lethality dungeoncrawls) - and reimplement it for an audience more used to MMOs than tabletop wargames because it's no longer 1974.  3e on the other hand tore down anything approaching Gygax's carefully wrought balance, any of the strong gamist aspects that had been there right from the beginning, and much much besides.  So you end up with the difference between a class based game which has things like fighter iterative attacks, and a game that attempts to be based on building blocks and interchangable levels. [MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION], re-read your 2e PHB where they classed the classes into the Fighter, Rogue, Magic User, and Priest roles (or whatever it was).  Roles were very much a thing pre-4e.</blockquote>

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