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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pseudopsyche" data-source="post: 4301010" data-attributes="member: 54600">binary outcomes versus graded performanceThis.  I trust the OP's math, but I wonder if the key problem is the DMG's fixation on skill challenge encounters as having a binary outcome: success or failure.  This fixation seems to stem in part from categorizing them as just another kind of encounter, which are either beaten (XP and other rewards gained) or failed.  IME, combat encounters, the kind most familiar to us, are designed to be beaten.  (The TPK rate should be low, and in practice many players retreat rarely, although arguably retreat should be more common in 4e.)  From a game mechanics perspective the key question for an encounter (outside of the fun the group has) is how much of the group's daily resources it costs to beat: daily powers and healing surges.  The key problem with skill challenges as written is that they don't consume appreciable resources, outside of the odd utility power.In my group, instead of changing the mechanics of the challenge, I will try redefining what it means to succeed.  Just as my players would receive XP for the monsters slain before retreating from combat, they will receive XP and other rewards for the successes earned before reaching the threshold number of failures.  (In the full spirit of the negative binomial distribution!)  So perhaps in a complexity-5 challenge, they will earn x/12 of the possible XP for earning x successes before 6 failures.Actually "beating" the skill challenge will be akin to rolling a natural 20 on a simple skill check and playing with a house rule granting some kind of critical success.  The Duke doesn't just agree to help, he sends his entire army.  You don't just catch the fleeing thief, you begin the ensuing encounter with her completely surrounded.  The corpse doesn't just answer your questions, he tells you everything he knows.  You don't just figure out where you are in the jungle, you either come out exactly where you want to go or you stumble across some magnificent find.  In other words, "success" in the old system becomes "resounding success", and many "failures" become normal "success."Note that many of the published skill challenges already have elements of this design.  In "Heathen," the party learns something useful with every success, regardless of whether they "beat" the challenge.  In the tidbit about adapting old modules, the alertness of the giants in the fortress grows with the number of failures (instead of being binary).  And of course we have anecdotal evidence from people, such as Keith Baker, who actually manage to enjoy running skill challenges without changing the mechanics of running one.</blockquote>

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