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<blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 7454257" data-attributes="member: 6698278">While I have a strong opinion on metagame design elements, I by no means intend to imply that those who enjoy such concepts are doing it wrong or should convert to my way of thinking.&nbsp; This is about a preference.&nbsp; It would be just as silly to try to convert everyone who prefers chocolate ice cream to vanilla.&nbsp; Vanilla is better in my opinion but philosophically &quot;a matter of taste cannot be disputed&quot;So a short definition:&nbsp; Metagaming.Metagaming is when a player makes a decision that the character the player is playing could never conceive of or know about.Here are some examples of metagame rules in 5e.1.&nbsp; The player chooses the number of hit dice to apply towards healing during a short rest.&nbsp; There seems to be no analog for the character.&nbsp; There also seems to be a resource being consumed but what is that resource?&nbsp; Potential healing?&nbsp; 2.&nbsp; Action surge.&nbsp; Why is this limited (besides game balance) early on to once between short rests?&nbsp; Can a fighter really only once in the course of a battle choose an exact moment to make an extra effort and then not again?&nbsp; This again seems like the player is choosing something the fighter would know nothing about.3.&nbsp; Second Wind.&nbsp; A player decides to give his character a surge of energy.&nbsp; The character just gets it apparently unexpectedly.&nbsp; It happens in the fast and furious furer of combat so it's not even something the character could think about much.4.&nbsp; Inspiration.&nbsp; Since this part of the game is pretty optional (and my guess is anyone close to my thinking ignores it anyway), it's not that big a deal.I realize I'm picking on the fighter but the fighter is pretty egregious in these areas.&nbsp; I'm sure may of the other classes have at least some issues like this though perhaps not to the same degree.So how do you guys with my own sentiments (or at least some sympathy for my sentiments) handle these things.&nbsp; What house rules have you developed?&nbsp; Is the game salvageable for someone like us?I've been thinking about Pathfinder 2e as another possibility.&nbsp; Do you think it will do better in that particular area?&nbsp; Worse?&nbsp; I'm going to check out the pdf.What about you old schoolers?&nbsp; There is a lot to like in some of the old school games but I find them not systematic enough for me.&nbsp; Heck 5e probably isn't as much as I'd like.&nbsp; Everything is a special class rule.&nbsp; I do think feats as a mechanic might be better ala Pf2e.&nbsp; But I am also thinking they'll make some pretty awful feats as well.&nbsp; Thoughts?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Emerikol, post: 7454257, member: 6698278"] While I have a strong opinion on metagame design elements, I by no means intend to imply that those who enjoy such concepts are doing it wrong or should convert to my way of thinking. This is about a preference. It would be just as silly to try to convert everyone who prefers chocolate ice cream to vanilla. Vanilla is better in my opinion but philosophically "a matter of taste cannot be disputed" So a short definition: Metagaming. Metagaming is when a player makes a decision that the character the player is playing could never conceive of or know about. Here are some examples of metagame rules in 5e. 1. The player chooses the number of hit dice to apply towards healing during a short rest. There seems to be no analog for the character. There also seems to be a resource being consumed but what is that resource? Potential healing? 2. Action surge. Why is this limited (besides game balance) early on to once between short rests? Can a fighter really only once in the course of a battle choose an exact moment to make an extra effort and then not again? This again seems like the player is choosing something the fighter would know nothing about. 3. Second Wind. A player decides to give his character a surge of energy. The character just gets it apparently unexpectedly. It happens in the fast and furious furer of combat so it's not even something the character could think about much. 4. Inspiration. Since this part of the game is pretty optional (and my guess is anyone close to my thinking ignores it anyway), it's not that big a deal. I realize I'm picking on the fighter but the fighter is pretty egregious in these areas. I'm sure may of the other classes have at least some issues like this though perhaps not to the same degree. So how do you guys with my own sentiments (or at least some sympathy for my sentiments) handle these things. What house rules have you developed? Is the game salvageable for someone like us? I've been thinking about Pathfinder 2e as another possibility. Do you think it will do better in that particular area? Worse? I'm going to check out the pdf. What about you old schoolers? There is a lot to like in some of the old school games but I find them not systematic enough for me. Heck 5e probably isn't as much as I'd like. Everything is a special class rule. I do think feats as a mechanic might be better ala Pf2e. But I am also thinking they'll make some pretty awful feats as well. Thoughts? [/QUOTE]

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