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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7456265" data-attributes="member: 5142">I hope you don't presume here that my PCs don't. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /> It is inherently a fool's errand. You are correct that "it's easier to play true to character if what you know as a player matches what you know as a character," but this is striving after wind. There is an inherent disconnect and power imbalance between player and character knowledge that  [MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION] overviews quite well. So for me this is really a discussion of "which metagaming poison do you pick?" ----- Compels in Fate are not really a mechanism about putting players in the position to "lose," and likewise it would be misguided IMO to view them in opposition to characters "winning." Character compels represent the introduction of character-oriented complications in the drama of the roleplaying experience. If your character Trouble is "Most Wanted Outlaw in the Three Territories," then the player presumably wants significant 'screentime' to roleplay this out. And that may mean that during an opportune time the GM slips the player a fate point and says, "While you are trying to lay low on your fact-finding mission, there is a patron at the bar wearing two pistol belts. He occasionally glances in your direction. He seems to recognize your face as dollar signs are starting to glow in his eyes." There is nothing inherently involved here about the player losing. The player gets a fate point for accepting this story complication that affects their character, but in-character, it is the player character deciding their wants in this dramatic moment: "Do I buckle-down on laying low so that I can dodge this bounty hunter for the good of the mission or do I live up to my reputation as a wanted outlaw?" The character embracing this potential chaos may even lead to "victory" depending on how this plays out. Maybe this impresses the person they are trying to gather dirt on, and they invite them into their circle. Maybe the other characters use this as a distraction to get the information they need. But isn't that metagaming? Sure, but part of Fate's social contract is that a player creates the Troubles that the player wants their character to experience in the game. The player is getting rewarded for roleplaying the character they wanted. This "metagame" is important for Fate as a game. The mechanic engages the player to embrace and think as character. You can spend Fate points when you put yourself into opportunites that lean on your character aspects. You gain Fate points when you put yourselves into opportunities that lean on your character aspects. I do not doubt that this process can be immersion-breaking for some, but these transactions most often transpire in-character for most Fate games I have played or run. Not only has  [MENTION=6698278]Emerikol[/MENTION] raised how this makes him feel like they are playing a chess piece, I had a similar conversation with  [MENTION=4789]Lord Mhoram[/MENTION] about this awhile back too. But several of players in my D&D group have said that D&D makes them feel more like minis in a tactical war game than characters, and they find Fate's mechanics more conducive for in-character roleplaying. (Though I wager that most people who game don't care.) My point here being that people have different preferences for mechanics that engender the in-character roleplaying experiences they want, and different games can produce different results depending on those preferences.</blockquote>

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