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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 7463220" data-attributes="member: 6688937">This is very hard to describe, because I feel like we've all been trained really well to ignore/accept it or we're just really accustomed to it. it (take your pick.) I remember introducing new players way back in the late 70's and 80's and HP were always one of those things that gave people trouble (not nearly so much as spell memorization, but I'll not digress). It took a lot of convincing, and then people would eventually let it ride. Let it ride long enough and you stop paying attention to how its not really working very well from a fiction/narrative perspective, because its working so well from a game perspective. Nowadays the resistance isn't there, I believe its because so many people have played computer rpgs and already "get it".And, for a long time, I thought, there's just no other way that makes practical sense at the table. Then I played a few other games...precursors to Fate,  later some Apocalypse world games. And I found out that, in fact, that isn't the case. There are relatively simple systems (sometimes even simpler than the accounting for HP) that make more narrative sense at the table. Since then, HP increasingly grate on me. Its difficult to go through D&D without seeing everyone with little color-changing bars over their heads.In specific, it doesn't. But both of them together make for trouble. If you tell me my ribs are cracked...or any other description of injury, then the injury should have an impact. Cracked ribs, broken arm, etc. all should have different impact on the fiction, or why bother describing them? The HP mechanic basically forces all injuries to be a collection of minor scrapes and bruises up until the point of the last HP. Which... is weird. It kinda makes the D&D world (well, and most of the rest of them, too) into a Disney version of fantasy.Maybe it would help to ask it in reverse? You just lost 36/40 HP. What is okay for the DM to describe? Could you be knocked back against a wall? Could you lose a limb? (For a game with so much swordfighting, there is a remarkable lack of amputation.)  Could your leg be crushed and useless? Could you have "rolled with it" and sustained a small injury but used up all your luck, skill (not sure how that gets used up), and Divine Favor for today? (And if so, how does the DM narrate that in a way that is character-facing?) Could you be temporarily blinded by dust, blood, etc.? By rule, you don't lose any movement, so your leg is probably okay. You don't lose your shield, or offhand weapon so, the arm is okay, too. Depending on the edition, getting knocked back might be okay as simple narrative flavor, or it might step on the toes of powers and feats, etc. So, basically, all injury except the last is cosmetic.Now, somebody earlier said something like "Wounds don't disappear in my game without magic!" And that's a common sentiment from Old-schoolers. However, I deny it. You tell me on the one hand that I have just had my ribs broken, but I really don't have any reason to believe you or care. So what happened? Where is the injury?Now, that doesn't mean that I want total simulationism. It means that I want narrative to matter. If I have shrugged it off, then let's know that I shrugged off the blow. If I haven't, then let's know that, too. And the problem gets worse when we consider things like Healing Magic (even old school), poison, spells, falling, etc. All of these things have ways of making narrative nonsense out of HP, or creating it in conjunction with them.Because HP don't tell you how badly you are hurt, they only tell you how close you are to dying. Which, sounds odd, I know. But remember all that Divine favor stuff? They are a clock or countdown timer, more than an indicator of condition. I mean, maybe I got "broken" again by playing other systems, but that's the way I see it. I hope that helps clarify my experience and position.</blockquote>

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