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A discussion of metagame concepts in game design
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<blockquote data-quote="chaochou" data-source="post: 7466295" data-attributes="member: 99817"><p>Yet again you trot out this laughable lie.</p><p></p><p>I've already established that HP are abstract <em>and </em>meta. So I haven't confused anything.</p><p></p><p>You, on the other hand, don't have a single argument. You've established, quite literally, nothing which demonstrates that D&D HP are not a metagame device. You simply assert it, completely without justification, over and over again.</p><p></p><p>Here it is again, so even you can follow along:</p><p></p><p>HP cannot be determined from the 'in-character' perspective. I've demonstrated this is true. It follows that HP cannot be used to make decisions from an 'in-character' perspective. This follows as true. Therefore they are metagame.</p><p></p><p>There is no confusion. You've contested literally nothing in this argument.</p><p></p><p>You've been challenged to show otherwise and couldn't run away fast enough, blubbing and crying about how it isn't fair to compare D&D to systems which don't use a metagame currency to describe the health of characters.</p><p></p><p>I've named a dozen systems which allow you to make decisions about your character's health from an in-character description of their health. The ability to make decisions from within character means you don't have to metagame.</p><p></p><p>You want to claim it's the granularity of the abstraction, but that's an empty and failed rhetorical device. All that means is that the granularity of the abstraction can determine whether something is metagame or not, based on whether such granularity allows in-character decision-making, which is the litmus test in the thread.</p><p></p><p>So very clearly, I haven't confused anything.</p><p></p><p>You're reduced to cowering behind the word 'abstraction' to try and deny D&D HPs metagame property, when in fact they are both abstract and metagame. I explained it in my first post to you.</p><p></p><p>Go on, blert out 'You've confused abstract for meta' again. It's making me laugh.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="chaochou, post: 7466295, member: 99817"] Yet again you trot out this laughable lie. I've already established that HP are abstract [I]and [/I]meta. So I haven't confused anything. You, on the other hand, don't have a single argument. You've established, quite literally, nothing which demonstrates that D&D HP are not a metagame device. You simply assert it, completely without justification, over and over again. Here it is again, so even you can follow along: HP cannot be determined from the 'in-character' perspective. I've demonstrated this is true. It follows that HP cannot be used to make decisions from an 'in-character' perspective. This follows as true. Therefore they are metagame. There is no confusion. You've contested literally nothing in this argument. You've been challenged to show otherwise and couldn't run away fast enough, blubbing and crying about how it isn't fair to compare D&D to systems which don't use a metagame currency to describe the health of characters. I've named a dozen systems which allow you to make decisions about your character's health from an in-character description of their health. The ability to make decisions from within character means you don't have to metagame. You want to claim it's the granularity of the abstraction, but that's an empty and failed rhetorical device. All that means is that the granularity of the abstraction can determine whether something is metagame or not, based on whether such granularity allows in-character decision-making, which is the litmus test in the thread. So very clearly, I haven't confused anything. You're reduced to cowering behind the word 'abstraction' to try and deny D&D HPs metagame property, when in fact they are both abstract and metagame. I explained it in my first post to you. Go on, blert out 'You've confused abstract for meta' again. It's making me laugh. [/QUOTE]
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