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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A discussion of metagame concepts in game design
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<blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 7475245" data-attributes="member: 6698278"><p>I probably have a radically different preferred way of doing hit points but that is far easier to houserule. It is pretty easy to revert back to even pre-3e. Just throw away the whole HD construct. Now that preference has nothing to do with metagaming and more to do with other preferences.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Being able to effectively only pull off certain maneuvers so many times a day has never been the issue. Choosing when you can pull those off is the issue. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The problem you are dealing with here though is a game balance issue. It's not really a metagame issue. I agree it could be abused but I can deal with those sorts of issues and always have. Also, it doesn't really work as an in character choice for me.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Probably because I'd just ban that whole construct right out of the gate. Not that many of my fighter players would think to choose it anyway. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with you that making the player declare before they hit is a no brainer. Same for the rogue. Still I'm probably more in the camp that prefers to have manuevers if they even exist activated by events not directly under the player's control but still reflective of the character's fighting ability. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree and in this case since it is every turn but only once in that turn it is fine. It takes a level of concentration that precludes it happening more than once in a few seconds period.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Any other interpretation besides yours is really nonsensical. I know people use feints etc.. but those aren't rolled attacks. An attack is a serious attempt to do damage.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually you seem very reasonable and I really appreciate a serious answer to my question. I think though you may be talking me out of it. I know that is not your intention and I'm glad it works for you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>One idea I've played with is having cantrips be first level spells. You cast the cantrip which lasts for so many hours and gives you the effective ability. Another is just getting rid of cantrips. I really feel like the original concept for the core classes is something I like. The wizard should be holding their powder. But that is again not a metagame taste but just a general taste on the class. But if you give the wizard one extra first level spell and then make all cantrips first level spells that when cast give you the ability for 8 hours you will maintain the vancian concept if that is your goal. Keep in mind though that things like dispel magic will cancel a cantrip spell immediately which I like. Cantrips also get more powerful which to me doesn't make sense. Instead just have persistent spells at varying levels the wizard can prepare if he so chooses. So the really good cantrip is a 4th level spell instead of a 1st level one.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's always interesting to see what others view as intolerable. We all have our tastes and desired views on the game. Agree or disagree I can respect the concept.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well I haven't seen the game yet but I will definitely download the pdf. I'm leaning that way at this point. I think the core structure will be non-dissociative and each feat will then be in or out. When you have a system, it's easier to throw out individual items without otherwise wrecking the game. It's easier to put new ones in too.</p><p></p><p>Right this very second though I am working on a sci-fi campaign using a modestly houseruled N.E.W. Mostly I will just remove the limited use powers as options. Modify the underly flavor of luck (or drop it). I've been hankering to try something besides fantasy for a while but have yet to see a game that really tickled my fancy. I really liked the core of N.E.W. for that sort of game. I'll definitely add a lot of setting based fluff / skills / professions etc...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emerikol, post: 7475245, member: 6698278"] I probably have a radically different preferred way of doing hit points but that is far easier to houserule. It is pretty easy to revert back to even pre-3e. Just throw away the whole HD construct. Now that preference has nothing to do with metagaming and more to do with other preferences. Being able to effectively only pull off certain maneuvers so many times a day has never been the issue. Choosing when you can pull those off is the issue. The problem you are dealing with here though is a game balance issue. It's not really a metagame issue. I agree it could be abused but I can deal with those sorts of issues and always have. Also, it doesn't really work as an in character choice for me. Probably because I'd just ban that whole construct right out of the gate. Not that many of my fighter players would think to choose it anyway. I agree with you that making the player declare before they hit is a no brainer. Same for the rogue. Still I'm probably more in the camp that prefers to have manuevers if they even exist activated by events not directly under the player's control but still reflective of the character's fighting ability. I agree and in this case since it is every turn but only once in that turn it is fine. It takes a level of concentration that precludes it happening more than once in a few seconds period. Any other interpretation besides yours is really nonsensical. I know people use feints etc.. but those aren't rolled attacks. An attack is a serious attempt to do damage. Actually you seem very reasonable and I really appreciate a serious answer to my question. I think though you may be talking me out of it. I know that is not your intention and I'm glad it works for you. One idea I've played with is having cantrips be first level spells. You cast the cantrip which lasts for so many hours and gives you the effective ability. Another is just getting rid of cantrips. I really feel like the original concept for the core classes is something I like. The wizard should be holding their powder. But that is again not a metagame taste but just a general taste on the class. But if you give the wizard one extra first level spell and then make all cantrips first level spells that when cast give you the ability for 8 hours you will maintain the vancian concept if that is your goal. Keep in mind though that things like dispel magic will cancel a cantrip spell immediately which I like. Cantrips also get more powerful which to me doesn't make sense. Instead just have persistent spells at varying levels the wizard can prepare if he so chooses. So the really good cantrip is a 4th level spell instead of a 1st level one. It's always interesting to see what others view as intolerable. We all have our tastes and desired views on the game. Agree or disagree I can respect the concept. Well I haven't seen the game yet but I will definitely download the pdf. I'm leaning that way at this point. I think the core structure will be non-dissociative and each feat will then be in or out. When you have a system, it's easier to throw out individual items without otherwise wrecking the game. It's easier to put new ones in too. Right this very second though I am working on a sci-fi campaign using a modestly houseruled N.E.W. Mostly I will just remove the limited use powers as options. Modify the underly flavor of luck (or drop it). I've been hankering to try something besides fantasy for a while but have yet to see a game that really tickled my fancy. I really liked the core of N.E.W. for that sort of game. I'll definitely add a lot of setting based fluff / skills / professions etc... [/QUOTE]
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