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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 5986247" data-attributes="member: 32536">You know, let's just stop you right here.I hate it when people twist my views of weakening the role of DM and removing "mother may I?" mechanics into this particular phrasing. People who are expressing concern over this subject are not doing so out of some kind of trauma born of distrust of the DM. They're doing so because they honestly believe it will make for a better game, even with a "good" DM.Putting these kinds of words into people's mouths is just plain rude. These kinds of discussions would be a lot more polite and constructive if you didn't create these fantasy motivations for people who have different interests and ideas than you.Anyways, on to the main subject...First, I'll say that you might be misunderstanding what the "mother may I?" insult is supposed to be targetting. It rather specifically refers to the uncertainty faced by the players due to an abstract game environment where they can't rely on certain facts of the game world. For example, tracking detailed positioning without a grid, where the positions of characters and availability of targets is mostly in the realm of DM fiat, so any action requires the player asking the DM if the action is, in fact, possible. This act of asking permission from the DM to perform any action whatsoever is the "mother may I?" part. It applies just as much to things like the game using abstract stunt mechanics rather than rigidly-defined powers, and the like.Example of "Mother May I?" gameplay:Player: We need to take out that ogre. Is he in range?DM: Yes.     (Yes you may)Player: I want to jump on his back. Is it possible?DM: Err... No, he's moving around too much and is too high for you to reach.    (No, you may not.)Player: Darn. I rush in and attack him with my sword.DM: Go ahead.     (Yes, you may.)*dice rolling*Example of the opposite:Player: I'm 25 feet from the ogre, and I have enough move, so I move into range and try to grapple him.DM: *listens patiently and plans the ogre's next move because he doesn't need to get involved**dice rolling*  Both sides have their strengths and weaknesses, but I prefer the latter, by a big margin. The biggest reason is that the former style leads to all kinds of problems because of different expectations on the part of the player and DM. Different people have different ideas of what is possible, so Mother May I gameplay leads to more disappointment and friction between people at the table. Dropping the Mother May I also speeds up the game and reduces the overall burden on the DM, freeing up time and mental energy that can be better used elsewhere.As for your specific points... Apologies up front if my responses don't make a lot of sense because I'm responding to both your words and my own perception of the Mother May I issue."The DM knows the whole picture, the players don't."Disagree. I don't want the DM to be making "course corrections to move the plot along" as you put it. Besides, most of this can be done without houseruling, a strong Rule Zero, and certainly without "mother may I?" abstraction. Moving the game along isn't a DM skill that is being challenged by this, so I consider it a non-issue. Also, the DM doesn't know the whole picture. What goes on inside the player's minds is just as important as whatever is going on in the DM's mind, so this is simply untrue."Maintaining the challenge"I've seen many people argue that it is easier to challenge the players if the DM simply takes the kid gloves off and stops interfering with the rules. For the most part, any challenge created by the DM interfering with the rules, rather than from the rules themselves, is what I'd consider an unfair challenge. "Mother may I?" gameplay hurts the ability of players to understand the basic situation and make complex plans and strategies."Power gaming"I think this is an unrelated issue. Power gaming (as you define it) is a problem of the character creation rules, which is a different beast than Dm involvement. Also, you're kind of making a badwrongfun argument there... If people want to have fun optimizing, let them."DMs want and deserve to have fun too"I don't think Mother May I gameplay is exactly fun for the DM... I DM a bit myself, and I much prefer relying on the rules and removing ambiguity, rather than factoring in a lot of ambiguity and making tons of judgement calls. I prefer to just roll the dice and see how they fall. Also, most of the stuff that is fun for DMs is unrelated to Mother May I as well."Videogame-style D&D"You make a silly point here. Mother May I has nothing to do with automating the DM's role. Sure, it removes the DM from certain parts of the game, but that is irrelevant for the most important parts of the DM's role. The DM isn't a calculator or combat referee, the DM is a world-creator and storyteller. You also make a few more rude characterizations and put words into people's mouths again. You need to work harder to avoid that.</blockquote>

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