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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5987601" data-attributes="member: 87792">I couldn't disagree more.&nbsp; 4e powers are tightly written in the way B/X spells are.&nbsp; The B/X fireball doesn't mention that it doesn't set things on fire - it has no need to do that, instead preferring to consider it obvious.&nbsp; We've had plenty of creative power use at my table initiated by the players - and not just of utility powers and rituals.&nbsp;&nbsp;The trouble doing that is that you condemn most people with some potential to DM to never actually get there.&nbsp; To me the best thing you can do is DM a good game that goes well so you have this knowledge and this feeling to fall back on.&nbsp; Do that preferably before you hit a few bumps and you will be equipped to feel that the whole thing is going off the rails and how.&nbsp;&nbsp;You've never played <a href="http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/WushuOpenRules/" target="_blank">Wushu</a> or <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13991.phtml" target="_blank">3:16</a>, have you?&nbsp; The rules aern't a whole lot more complicated than that - and I really recommend Wushu.&nbsp; But that doesn't mean any fool can run them - and they produce excellent games that D&amp;D doesn't touch for what they do.&nbsp; Even your so-called absurd illustration fails to make your point.&nbsp;&nbsp;Interesting.&nbsp; Because I know a lot of good 4e DMs.&nbsp; I have literally never been at a 4e table where there weren't at least three players capable of DMing a year long campaign (in some cases they hadn't started DMing at that point but ran a campaign later).&nbsp; One of the two times I've had a bad 4e DM I recall a week with five players at the table.&nbsp; Four of us were better DMs than the person DMing at that point.&nbsp; A good DM in 4e IME is normal.&nbsp;And for the record, you'd need to be truly impressive at something to make my standards for a good DM if you can't work out how to improvise with 4e powers.&nbsp;&nbsp;This may be the problem you have.&nbsp; We've demistified DMing in 4e.&nbsp; When one campaign comes to an end and we're discussing what to do next, there will always IME be at least two players other than the previous DM pitching a campaign.&nbsp; With about half the player base DMing and roughly two thirds of them able to DM pretty well with the assistance of the tools provided you no longer get to sit on your DM's throne and gain automatic respect just for that.&nbsp; You need to actually be able to bring it - with something approaching a third of the 4e player base being good DMs it's the players not the DM who get to pick and choose.&nbsp;And isn't &quot;Debates in the off time - for now we continue&quot; just normal play?&nbsp; Although I'm not sure; I haven't looked up a 4e rule in more than a year while DMing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5987601, member: 87792"] I couldn't disagree more. 4e powers are tightly written in the way B/X spells are. The B/X fireball doesn't mention that it doesn't set things on fire - it has no need to do that, instead preferring to consider it obvious. We've had plenty of creative power use at my table initiated by the players - and not just of utility powers and rituals. The trouble doing that is that you condemn most people with some potential to DM to never actually get there. To me the best thing you can do is DM a good game that goes well so you have this knowledge and this feeling to fall back on. Do that preferably before you hit a few bumps and you will be equipped to feel that the whole thing is going off the rails and how. You've never played [URL="http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/WushuOpenRules/"]Wushu[/URL] or [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13991.phtml"]3:16[/URL], have you? The rules aern't a whole lot more complicated than that - and I really recommend Wushu. But that doesn't mean any fool can run them - and they produce excellent games that D&D doesn't touch for what they do. Even your so-called absurd illustration fails to make your point. Interesting. Because I know a [I]lot[/I] of good 4e DMs. I have literally never been at a 4e table where there weren't at least three players capable of DMing a year long campaign (in some cases they hadn't started DMing at that point but ran a campaign later). One of the two times I've had a bad 4e DM I recall a week with five players at the table. Four of us were better DMs than the person DMing at that point. A good DM in 4e IME is [I]normal[/I]. And for the record, you'd need to be truly impressive at [I]something[/I] to make my standards for a good DM if you can't work out how to improvise with 4e powers. This may be the problem you have. We've demistified DMing in 4e. When one campaign comes to an end and we're discussing what to do next, there will [I]always[/I] IME be at least two players other than the previous DM pitching a campaign. With about half the player base DMing and roughly two thirds of them able to DM pretty well with the assistance of the tools provided you no longer get to sit on your DM's throne and gain automatic respect just for that. You need to actually be able to bring it - with something approaching a third of the 4e player base being good DMs it's the players not the DM who get to pick and choose. And isn't "Debates in the off time - for now we continue" just normal play? Although I'm not sure; I haven't looked up a 4e rule in more than a year while DMing. [/QUOTE]

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