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<blockquote data-quote="green slime" data-source="post: 5630748" data-attributes="member: 1325">Its very easy:1) players should have to say where they are searching, for how long, and what precautions they are taking.It just simply isn't good enough to say &quot;yeah, we search the room...&quot;For how long? If it takes 1 Full Round Action to earn a d20 roll on 5x5 surface, it takes 16 in order to cover all floors, walls &amp; ceiling in a 10x10 room. Add in other surfaces (bookshelves, tables, and it increases). It takes 320 Full Round Actions or more to cover the 10x10 room, or a little more than 32 minutes. But that is assuming some kind of &quot;combat urgency&quot;. Outside of combat, the search is going to be slower (say 45-60 minutes).While searching the room, there is a chance for random encounters, obviously, and apply a penalty to their Listening checks to avoid surprise (searching isn't just looking, but tapping for hidden spaces, etc).2) It is perfectly reasonable to hide hings that can only be discovered if something is specifically searched (sand in the bottom of an aquarium), altered (book shelf moved away from the wall), or destroyed (passage plastered over). 3) It is up to the Players to have the drive to obtain the treasure they require to meet new challenges. It helps if you have challenges well beyond their capabilities to start with in their environment, rather than having the whole world adjust to their level, as they level. They need to be smarter, tougher, bolder, and more successful than others to earn their accolades.4) Treasure is placed where it is logical and required for the story, not when and where it suits the PCs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="green slime, post: 5630748, member: 1325"] Its very easy: 1) players should have to say where they are searching, for how long, and what precautions they are taking. It just simply isn't good enough to say "yeah, we search the room..." For how long? If it takes 1 Full Round Action to earn a d20 roll on 5x5 surface, it takes 16 in order to cover all floors, walls & ceiling in a 10x10 room. Add in other surfaces (bookshelves, tables, and it increases). It takes 320 Full Round Actions or more to cover the 10x10 room, or a little more than 32 minutes. But that is assuming some kind of "combat urgency". Outside of combat, the search is going to be slower (say 45-60 minutes). While searching the room, there is a chance for random encounters, obviously, and apply a penalty to their Listening checks to avoid surprise (searching isn't just looking, but tapping for hidden spaces, etc). 2) It is perfectly reasonable to hide hings that can only be discovered if something is specifically searched (sand in the bottom of an aquarium), altered (book shelf moved away from the wall), or destroyed (passage plastered over). 3) It is up to the Players to have the drive to obtain the treasure they require to meet new challenges. It helps if you have challenges well beyond their capabilities to start with in their environment, rather than having the whole world adjust to their level, as they level. They need to be smarter, tougher, bolder, and more successful than others to earn their accolades. 4) Treasure is placed where it is logical and required for the story, not when and where it suits the PCs. [/QUOTE]

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